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Entering Journal Articles seems very straightforward: the essential thing is that the /book/journal_publication CVT connects the article (/book/journal_article) to the Journal (/book/journal) -- (also use /book/scholarly_work and /book/written_work to finsh the job, or course)
I would like to find a clean way to enter Conference Papers which are published in Conference Proceedings, in a way analogous to articles published in journals.
I have indeed identified a hairball of types that seems to do the job, but it would be desirable to do one of these two things as the primary mechinism:
(1) create an analogous CVT connecting Conference papers (type missing, let's call it "/conferences/papers") to the Conference proceedings (/conferences/proceedings); or,
(2) I know it is academic blasphemy, but we could just use the existing /book/journal_publication CVT, then type the conference paper as a /book/journal_article, and double type the Conference proceedings as /conferences/proceedings and /book/journal.
I think (2) is the easiest and maybe the best-- in the modern world, the prestige difference between journal articles and conference papers is less marked, and maybe the reverse in some technical fields since journals are inherently less current.
I plan to load up lots of papers and articles this spring some time. Anyone have a problem with me using approach number 2?
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OK, after sleeping on it, I don't like wither of the suggestions I made above, instead I prefer this third option: This recipe uses the /book/contents CVT for the conference paper in analogous way that the /book/journal_publication CVT is used with the journal article. I now like this best.
FOR JOURNAL ARTICLES AND CONFERENCE PAPERS do steps (1), (2) and (3) then use (4a) for Journal Articles, and (4b) for Conference Papers:
Step (1): create a /common/topic to give the article or paper a name (i.e., title)
Step (2): type it as /book/written_work to give it Authors, Copyright date, Subjects, etc.
Step (3): type it as /book/scholarly_work to give it Acknowledged people, Keywords, Works cited, etc.
Step (4a: FOR JOURNAL ARTICLES): type it as a /book/journal_article and use the /book/journal_publication CVT to give it volume number, issue number and page numbers and connect it to the Journal it is published in (which should be typed as /book/jounal)
Step (4b: FOR CONFERENCE PAPERS): type it as a /book/published_work and use the /book/contents CVT to connect it to the Conference Proceedings it is published in (which should be typed both as /book/publication and /conferences/proceedings)
I'm going to try a few of these and see how it looks.
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Sheesh! I just saw this at /user/tfmorris/default_domain/conference_paper
looks like /user/tfmorris came up with the same approach as (4b) above for Conference Papers using /book/contents, guess this is the way to go.
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I don't understand why it would be blasphemous (because proceedings aren't a periodical?), but why propose going down that path if you think it'll be controversial? If proceedings aren't considered a periodical, why not model this as a book style publication of a collection of works? That would allow you to model each paper as a separate written work.
I entered a couple of paper's from one of Ed's proceedings as an example of one way you might do it. Proceedings of the Gray Vireo Symposium Co-Sponsored by the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish and the New Mexico Ornithological Society
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Thanks for the help on this. I like the way you entered the papers in the Gray Vireo proceedings. I was coming to the same point of view (that of using /book/contents). I think our comments on that crossed.
The confusing thing for me was that Journal Articles and Conference Papers are both just "Academic Papers", no matter where they get published-- I was looking for a type that encompassed that idea. Of course, scholarly_work, and written_work cover what is needed, there.
And, just to explain the "blasphemous" comment better... Journal Articles are supposd to represent fairly mature work, they are "juried" by experts. On the other hand, conference papers do not go through that "expert reading" process and are sellected by a more tolerant group. -- all I meant about "blasphemous" was that some academics make a big deal of this difference in prestige. Although, in practice, many fundamental papers in a field are found in Conference Proceedings, as this is where the ideas were first presented.
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Yes, our comments definitely crossed. I only saw your original post, so must have been working on a stale browser tab. My conference_paper type was the beginnings of an experiment based on that original note.
I ran out of time to play with it and never really achieved the effect that I wanted. It's useful to have a single type which includes all the other types so that they can be applied in one go, but I what I really wanted to do was have the property published_in_proceedings have an expected type of Conference Proceedings, but I think I'd need to either add a property to that type (which I don't have permission to do) or create a new type which had a property delegated to /book/publication.
This can all be modeled using the current individual types. I was just hoping to aggregate some of this stuff to make data entry a little easier through the current web UI. Perhaps someone else can play with it some more. Feel free to copy my type as a starting point (but don't use the type itself for anything since it's just an experiment and will get deleted).
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sounds great scott,
i've reciprocated /conferences/proceedings, and cleaned up its included types. this schema is a total mess.
i dont know what your data looks like, but the speech_or_presentation schema was built to model this stuff aswell, describing the presentations as public-speaking events, instead of papers. its been waiting for its promotion to this commons for a couple months, but if youve got some data to load i can bug a metaweb staffer to get it set up. not sure whats best.
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Yes, adding /conferences/conference/papers property to /conferences/conference is good, especially since it already has a property linking to the /conferences/conference/online_proceeding.
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by the way, it looks like /conferences/conference_proceedings now has an included type /book/published_work (which connects through the /book/contents CVT to a /book/publication)...
I think this may be backwards: It seems like the Proceedings should have included type /book/publication which would connect through /book/contents to the /book/published_work's (which are the papers or subsections listed in the table of contents)
Could you double check this?
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Oops -- good catch; it should indeed include /book/publication. I'll fix that.
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I've changed the included type to /book/publication, and also removed /book/scholarly_work as an included type, since the proceedings itself is not so much a scholarly work as are the papers it includes.
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ya personally i'd like to see this done with this presented work type it allows for multiple presentations by different people, and isn't specific to only conferences. ...but since its all in transition, do what works best for your purposes.
...steps (1), (2) and (3) then use (4a) for Journal Articles, and 'presented work' for conference proceedings
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I like your /base/publicspeaking/speech_or_presentation. There are lots of cases where people present "Invited Papers" at a conference session or "Key Notes" at a conference: in these cases, it is an event and I think the /publicspeaking/speech_or_presentation would fit well. But there are thousands of conference papers that are published in proceedings that are not really speaking events of any note (or maybe it is just a 2-page paper in a "poster session" where you walk by and look at the poster). A lot of the data I have is references to papers written in an academic Curriculum Vitae, or personal web page.-- i.e. these are just bibliographical citations to a written paper, where the speaking event is not really important.
So, I am now suggesting this approach:
FOR JOURNAL ARTICLES: use /book/journal_article and the CVT /book/journal_publication to connect to the Journal it is published in (as before)
FOR ORDINARY CONFERENCE PAPERS OR POSTER PAPERS (not important speaking events): use /book/published_work and CVT /book/contents to connect to the specific page numbers Proceedings it was published in (as before)
FOR NOTABLE PRESENTED CONFERENCE PAPERS like Key Notes, Invited Papers or other notable speaking events or demonstrations: (1) use /base/publicspeaking/speech and CVT /base/publicspeaking/speech_or_presentation to connect to the event it was presented at; AND (2) use /book/published_work and CVT /book/contents to connect to the Proceedings it was published in
How does that sound?
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For journal articles and conference papers (of both types), this is exactly how the schema was designed to be used. I'll try to add some more documentation to make it clearer so that other people don't have to go through this process again!
@spencer: I'll take a look at the Public Speaking base; it wasn't on my radar for some reason. (Oh, I found the bug -- I'll just steal it from Kirrily; she won't mind.)
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