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Just wondering if there's any reason that Input Method applies only to Musical Games, not to Computer Games in general - modelling (eg) which games could use the Dreamcast's "Fishing Rod" accessory seems moderately "important" to me.
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I agree. Input Method can easily to other games. I wonder if it might be necessary to introduce a new type (Computer Game Peripheral?) for specific models of peripheral (GunCon, Ion Drums, etc.) and reserve Input Method for general categories (microphone, controller, etc.) Thoughts?
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Actually, there's a type called Computer Peripheral, which is one of pak21's types. It was even recently promoted to the Computers commons. Since consoles are computers, the Dreamcast itself can definitely be linked to the Fishing Rod peripheral. I'm fully in support of adding Input Methods property to the base Computer Game type. I also like the idea of generalizing the property to class of input method rather than a particular peripheral (see the bottom-most fielf in the infobox for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Band_(video_game) ), and defaulting to the peripheral itself when there's some proprietary thing going on, like the EyeToy.
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Can I suggest that a different name than Input Method be chosen?
This already has a pretty specific meaning in computer land (ways of entering ideographic characters using a western keyboard).
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It could be very specific like "gaming input device". Clinical, but accurate.
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So a plan (as I understand it):
- Computer Game Version acquires a new "input devices" property (or some similar name), which links to a list of Input Method topics (Input Method is possibly renamed along the way).
- Input Method is used for generic things like joystick or guitar controller.
- Input Method gets a new "instances" property (or some similar name) which links to a list of specific Computer Peripherals which provide that Input Method.
- Unique input devices, like the EyeToy, would be typed as both an input method and a peripheral.
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I think Computer Games should also acquire this new property. As for naming, wikipedia uses "Game Controllers" to refer to the subset of Input Devices specific to gaming, but I'm not sure you'd call the EyeToy a Game Controller. I also think Input Devices can be a subset of Computer Peripherals. Based on this and a few other things I didn't think through carefully enough the first time around, can I amend pak21's list and suggest that we
- Rename Input Method to Input Device
- Move Input Device to /computer
- Have Input Device inlude Computer Peripheral
- Computer Game and Computer Game Version acquire a new "Input Devices Supported" property (or some similar name), which links to a list of Input Device topics
- Peripheral is used for things like printer, scanner
- Input Device is used for input Peripherals like mouse or joystick or guitar controller
- Peripheral gets a new "instances" property which links to topics of type Peripheral, creating a phylogeny pattern
- Unique input devices, like the EyeToy, would both be an Input Device and an "instance" of the webcam Input Device
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That's also good (in fact, better than version 1).
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Generalizing to Computers sound like a good idea. Do we what to create a way to relate peripherals to specific consoles, possibly by adding the Computer type to the relevant Computer Game Platform topics?
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Good idea. In fact, is there any reason Computer shouldn't be an included type of Computer Game Platform?
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I was thinking about that. The only problem I see is with topics like Microsoft Windows where the platform is not a computer itself, but an operating system.
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Ahhh ok, that makes sense. I filed a bug against myself for the changelist I posted above:
https://bugs.freebase.com/browse/DA-849
Stay tuned!
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Follow the links from http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/edit/topic/en/time_crisis_4 to explore the types I've set up. I didn't move the Input Device type to the Computers domain yet since that's a bit of a chore, but the schema modifications are complete:
http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/type/schema/cvg/computer_videogame
http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/type/schema/cvg/game_version
http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/type/schema/computer/computer_peripheral
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Maybe we can cut out the Input Device type altogether and just use Computer Peripheral, since I can now think of a few devices that are supported by games and aren't input devices, like the Game Boy Printer, the Rumble Pak and Rock Band Stage Kit.
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Good call, I think we could use some pruning. There's little left to be done, then. These changes can go live right away without affecting much:
- Rename Input Method to Input Device
- Move Input Device to /computer [postponed]
- Have Input Device inlude Computer Peripheral
- Computer Game and Computer Game Version acquire a new "Peripherals Supported" property (or some similar name), which links to a list of Computer Peripheral topics
- Peripheral is used for things like printer, scanner
Input Device is used for input Peripherals like mouse or joystick or guitar controller- Peripheral gets a new "instances" property which links to topics of type Peripheral, creating a phylogeny pattern
Unique input devices, like the EyeToy, would both be an Input Device and an "instance" of the webcam Input Device
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If we're doing this, it would presuambly make sense to at least deprecate the "Games Using This" property which currently exists on Input Method, which would make Input Method (de facto) a propertyless type.
At this point, should we be considering the complete removal of the Input Method type? It seems to me that could then just be handled by the phylogeny pattern:Gun Con 3 is an instance of Gun Con is an instance of Light gun is an instance of Input Device, or is that taking things too far?
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Ok, I had a slight hiccup while doing this on OTG. I realized Computer Peripheral includes Consumer Product, which means it can't be treated as a phylogeny. I asked Jeff and Bryan for some help with this and they suggested the following:
- Make a phylogenetic Computer Peripheral Class type (w/ the usual instances and instance of properties)
- Link the most specific and relevant Computer Peripheral Classes to their Computer Peripheral+Consumer Product instances via a separate property called Products
The Input Method type can indeed be removed but I'll save that for last, at least until the data is migrated. -
Also, for Computer Game and Computer Game Version, there will be two properties:
- Peripherals Supported
- Peripheral Classes Supported
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Ok, here are some links detailing the latest round of changes:
View for Peripheral Classes that are instances of Game Controllers (ignore the key, it's wrong)
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Did sandbox get refreshed since you posted these? I don't see anything new on these.
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Darn, yes it did. I'll recreate the stuff a bit later tonight.
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Sorry for the delay. The types are live on sandbox again:
- create Computer Peripheral Class
- add Instances property -> Computer Peripheral Class
- and Instance of property -> Computer Peripheral Class
- add Products property -> Computer Peripheral
- Computer Peripheral:
- hide Instances property
- hide Instance of property
- reciprocate incoming Products property as Peripheral Class
- Computer Game + Computer Game Version:
- add Peripherals Supported property -> Computer Peripheral
- add Peripheral Classes Supported property -> Computer Peripheral Class
Rock Band supports the Guitar Controller peripheral class. - create Computer Peripheral Class
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As a very small point, the other properties on these types have only the first word capitialised, whereas the new properties have every word capitialised; it would be good to be consistent.
Should we also be hiding the input method property on Musical Game?
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Computer Game Version doesn't have a property for Computer Peripheral Class.
Should Peripheral and Peripheral Class reciprocate the incoming properties from Game and Game Version? (E.g., to answer the question: I bought this dance pad, now what else can I do with it?)
Otherwise, looks good.
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I didn't create those properties yet because I meant to ask whether or not the updated Computer Game Version type would include Computer Game or not, but I completely forgot. I was thinking about the reciprocation issue but I don't know how much of a pattern it is to reciprocate across domains in that fashion. That is, we'd be linking a very general /computers/computer_peripheral type to the /cvg/computer_videogames that support it. Is that ok?
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Yes, that's just fine (reciprocation across commonses is pretty common). I had forgotten that the types were in different commons, actually.
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Took a while, but I've finally gotten everything live on Freebase.
Here's the topic for Guitar Controller highlighting the reciprocal links:
I've hidden the "Games Using This" property on Input Method and its reverse for now until it can be migrated to the appropriate properties on Computer Peripheral. Please feel free to poke around the types and add data and let me know if anything is lacking, but I did try to be as complete as possible regarding the feedback in this thread.
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Final last bits of tidyup: I edited the descriptions for the now deprecated properties to make it clear they're deprecated, and have copied all the Input Method data to Computer Peripheral (Class) as appropriate. I think that's it, and we've done it without quite needing the longest discussion thread in Freebase history :-)
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I just added "Drum Controller" and cotyped "Microphone" though I'm now regretting that - I wish I had made it "USB Microphone" or something. I also just imported another 80+ musical game topics...
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