Discussions on Film
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I've noted that you've just asserted approx. 700 films to be of the genre /en/drama, this is the wrong topic as it is about the concept of Theater and the correct topic for films considered to be a drama is /en/drama_film. I've moved all of the recent erroneous assertions but would appreciate if you would check to make sure you are not asserting incorrect genres (as per the recent discussion post on Dec 4 2011).
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I can't figure out how to associate a musical track with a film that uses it. I'm sure it's easy, but going from the film to the track gives too many disambiguations to choose from. Easier the other way, but I can't find how to add the relationship type. Any help?
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You need to add the appropriate type to the song first. To figure out what type it needs to be, go to the Film schema http://www.freebase.com/type/schema/film/film and you'll see that it's expecting Film featured song. Add that type to your song and you'll have some blank properties that you can fill in to link back to the film.
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Please work a more common association through track > film soundtrack > film instead, Film Featured Song is meant for the notable/signature piece(s) of music, usually only a song or two, and most often specifically written for the film. "Moon River" for Breakfast at Tiffany's for example. Or that awful Celine Dion song for Titanic. It's not meant for all the musical tracks/songs of the film soundtrack or film score.
So if that's what you meant to do, DbG, then follow tfmorris's advice, however, if you wish to link all tracks, do so on the musical album that's also linked to a film as a film soundtrack, like White Christmas.
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What about films that use music, but don't have a soundtrack album? The Soundtrack type says its only for use on albums.
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An interesting question that, I'd say that should be another type then. Film Music? Could contain all incidental music for a film that didn't get released as a soundtrack?
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That's right — exactly the issue I was finding.
The Fireflies in the Garden soundtrack as per http://tr.im/PqCc (amazon link) features only an orchestral score. But the film itself features a number of songs as per http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0961108/soundtrack
I'd have guessed that Film Featured Song would be the more appropriate choice, but that's not quite as gmackenz suggests — the songs listed on imdb weren't recorded specifically for the film.
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Film Featured Song is usually songs written for the film, but not always. If there is a film soundtrack released, that FFS will always likely be contained on the musical album. The property was ideally designed for the films of Hollywood's Golden Age when it seemed most films had to have a signature standout musical number (seemingly to assuage those who weren't seeing that week's current Hollywood song & dance film). Classic examples are Casablanca, Ball of Fire, & To Have and Have Not, where there are complete musical numbers being performed in the film, almost like a musical interlude(s) between acts at times.
Then there are the movies like the James Bond films after Dr. No, all of which feature a theme tune that is fully vocalized for the infamous naked ladies with guns opening credits sequences.
Later on it can be used for standout songs that may or may not have been written/released previously, again usually like an 1980's MTV musical video interlude inserted into the film. Say Anything's 'In Your Eyes,' is a great example of a pre-existing song that at the time was 3 years old being used to great effect in the film. Or Inglorious Basterds using a 29-year-old pop tune, 'Cat People (Putting Out Fire),' for a climatic buildup to the finale of Tarantino's 2009 film.
Movies may have a 'theme song' which also could be captured by this property, like the previous examples I made in my first post in this thread ('Wind Beneath your Wings' for Beaches, seemingly every 1970's to 1990's Barbara Streisand/Burt Reynolds/Dudley Moore/Jill Clayberg films).
Maybe we could have a CVT-based property like I had suggested for film music not released as part of a package related to the movie. Still pondering it.
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I'd say that all music that is used in a film (even if also on a soundtrack) should use a new property (and, I suppose, type), regardless of whether it's on a soundtrack or not. That is, the values for the (hypothetical) "Music in this film" property could and should denormalize the track listing of any soundtracks the film might have (and a film might have several with different tracks). I think this would be a lot easier to use and understand than a CVT that only referenced non-soundtrack music.
I suppose Musical Track is the right type to use, rather than simply Composition, since you might want to know who performed it, although it would probably be impossible to reconcile these tracks with any tracks other than ones that appear on actual soundtracks (and it's entirely possible that the track on the soundtrack is different from what was in the film, as well). E.g., it's probably impossible to know which version of Otis Redding's "Try a Little Tenderness" Duckie lip-synchs to in "Pretty in Pink", since it's not on the soundtrack, so we'd have to create a new
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Did we ever get a new type created to handle this use case in this thread, Jeff ?
I have a similar use case. Being able to link the Canonical Versions of songs to a "Music in film" property.
Brenda Russell co-wrote the song “Justice of the Heart” with Stevie Wonder for the Denzel Washington movie John Q—a song that Wonder performed.
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- http://www.wolperorg.com/shows/details9a02.html?showID=487
- http://www.wolperorg.com/shows/details9077.html?showID=488
IMDB lumped it together as 1 film, which it is, but behind the scenes it was managed as 2 production projects with overlap of some of the crew, and cast. Any ideas with existing Types ? or did I just define a new Type that is needed to handle this ?
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My guess is that there could be two separate films with the unique weblink each to it's Wolperorg.com webpage (or namespace/key/URI template). Which one would get the IMDB key is one question. Should there be a third topic for the IMDB-version of the conjoined productions? I'd really be hesitant to try to model this with a new type as I wonder how useful would it be (how many instances would we have of this? Where would we find sufficient and interesting data for this?)?
That said, we model films more towards the FRBR-ish manifestation/expression of the creative work, I believe. So IMDB seems to assert that the only known representation of the work is as a union of the two projects. This is not uncommon. One could try to model filming by second and third units of any major film/tv production but again it would seemingly not give much benefit for the extra layer(s) of complexity and again the availability of (non-restrictive licensed) data for this seems scarce to me.
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Should /film/production_company probably should have /business/business_operation as an included type?
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Ok, /organization/organization is probably better.
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I would say Organization for sure. I'm not sure about Business Operation.
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Hey all,
I'm trying to retrieve all films using this JSON-parsed query:
"{"q1":{"cursor":true,"query":{"type":"\/film\/film","name":null,"initial_release_date":null,"genre":[],"language":[],"limit":1000}}}"I never get any more than 1000 records, even though I have cursor enabled... what gives?
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You only want "cursor":true for the first iteration. After that, you should be passing the cursor value that you received back in the next call. Check the documentation for more details.
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You only want "cursor":true for the first iteration. After that, you should be passing the cursor value that you received back in the next call. Check the documentation for more details.
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You only want "cursor":true for the first iteration. After that, you should be passing the cursor value that you received back in the next call. Check the documentation for more details.
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No mention on IMDB that I can find of this, only pages with data seem to have picked it up from us. Wikipedia article that sourced this film project has been deleted. Keeping the topic, but detyped it as a film as we have no type for unmade films. Was it an announced project?
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It was deleted from Wikipedia under Cause for Speedy Deletion G3 "pure vandalism and blatant hoaxes": (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Jake_Campbell, and the creating user's account has been blocked, which might argue for deletion.
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Ok, that's good enough for me to mark this topic for deletion. Only shows up on a couple of Juggle pages in searching the tubes.
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It seems this movie is not happening anytime soon. I can't find any recent news whatsoever.
I guess this should be deleted. Or is there some property which we can set to 'Rumored' or 'In limbo' or 'Development hell' or something?
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Actually, couldn't we create a new property 'status'? Kinda like the 'Currently in production' property for tv programs, but not as a boolean. There could be several options like Planned, Pre production, Post production, etc.
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A simple production-status property with a few enumerated values or something similar could be useful unless someone wants to get into modeling the full blown project life cycle of film projects.
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It shouldn't be deleted. It is in development. I like the notion of production-status property though.
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What would be the procedure to add such a property? Can you do that, Jon, as you are a staff member?
The next step would be to determine the statusses. I did a quick search and found this IMDb pro page. I think the statusses are:
Announced Pre-Production Filming Post-Production Completed ("Films completed but not yet released.") Released? I don't know if it's necessary, as there's also the initial release date property. When that date is in the past, the movie must be released in some way, I think.
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As a film domain admin, I can create the proposed property on sandbox, enter some examples and present it to the community freebase discuss list as a proposal for their comments. We then await feedback from the community prior to implementation in production.
I'd be happy to do that - when I do, would you help me add a few examples?
BTW, I believe there is an In Development status as well. I agree with you and don't think we should include Released here - and rely on the initial release date property for that.
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Ok Jon, sounds good. What exactly woul be the 'In Development' status? Aren't most of the statusses some sort of 'In Development' (announced and post/in/pre-production). Or is it the phase between announced and pre-production?
Sure, I can provide some examples. That shouldn't be too hard, you can just browse to a popular actor's film page and check the releases at the bottom (for example Al Pacino).
PS I see I forgot to make a bulleted list in my previous post, sorry about that.
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I've talked with some peeps internally and we have doubts about how useful this would be as an enumeration because it could get stale very quickly. Production status would require a lot of user upkeep as we can't think of an automated mechanism or newsfeed that could be monitored to maintain the correct status. It would probably better s set of dated values for Development (Pre-Production), Shooting, Post-Production and completed would be the initial release date we already have on the film type.
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With input from Jon, here's what we propose as being useful, and easily query-able through MQL on sandbox, now getting this data will be interesting.
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That is actually really, really smart. This way the data is saved forever as well. And as long as there's a way to distinguish completed movies from uncompleted movies, I'm happy anyway :-)
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Great, will wait and see if others will comment and probably put on production site on Friday if no more improvements are proffered.
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Done. On production as of now.
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Hi,
I was introduced to the matchmaker app today. When checking it out, I found myself wondering whether it would be a good idea to create an IMDb matchmaker queue. I already have a database of almost 68000 movie entities with IMDb code, title, year of initial release and sometimes a few aka's.
What do you guys think? Shall we create such a queue? And is anyway willing to help me set it up?
Best, Martijn
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Willing to vote ;) There are pre-existing film related queues there to follow as examples, the Netflix matching ones in particular may prove beneficial.
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You may want to wait a little bit - I just finished an IMDB queue of about 6000 films so those keys will be loaded shortly. You wouldn't want to fire off a queue that duplicated that effort.
Also, I was thinking this would be a better job for Refine. We could reconcile your database against freebase and add missing keys, akas - and perhaps pick up other missing properties that way. With a data set that large, Refine would be a better tool.
I'd be happy to work with you on that. What is the source of your data?
Jon
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The problem with using Refine for something this big is that you get stuck with a single person doing all of the reconciliation and checking rather than having multiple people contribute like you would with Matchmaker or some other crowd sourced tool.
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Some time ago I was wondering if is technically possible to have a public installation of "Refine".
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There's a strong notion of one user per installation built in to the current Refine implementation. Attempts to share an installation will result in bad things happening. I added support for Google Spreadsheets which could be used as a basis for some primitive collaboration support, but all the coordination would need to be done external to Refine currently (subdividing spreadsheets, allocating rows to users, etc).
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Ok Jon, I'll defintely wait then (great job by the way, 6000 is a lot). If you would help me set things up, I wouldn't really care whether the dataset is added through Matchmaker or Refine. Whatever suits the database and/or community best.
The sources of my data are movieposterdb.com and moviepicturedb.com. Whenever a user is willing to upload a poster or still there, he needs to enter the IMDb id, so he can't really pick the wrong movie to upload to. The title, possible aka's and the initial release year are scraped when an id is used for the first time. A problem might be that we scrape the original/primary title from IMDb, which is not always the English title.
Martijn
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Scraping IMDB isn't in conflict with their ToS? I thought they were pretty restrictive.
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I think what we do is not that bad. We only get the title, year, countries and (currently) one aka. Also, we make sure we link to IMDb on pretty much every page and most times in a pretty prominent place. Must be a good deal for them (also considering we only do a few requests per day, whenever a new movie is added).
But, I agree, it's might be a little bit questionable.
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By the way try googling for 'IMDB scraping' once. For instance open source media centers do or did it. (like Plex, but they switched to Freebase recently).
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Oh and what I forgot: we also have country information for most movies.
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Martin - I'd like to discuss this in more detail with you: your goals, licensing considerations, possible use of images, etc. before we look at how to best proceed. Let's exchange some email directly then bring a proposal back to this discussion. If I post to the contact form on movieposterdb.com does that go to you?
Jon
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Ok Jon, that sounds good. You could use the contact form, but you can also send an e-mail to my name at that domain.
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Hi,
I noticed that for a lot of Award winners and Award nominations the Award Ceremony property is missing. Is this an error in the converting process (the information is present on Wikipedia) or is there a reason for this?
Martijn
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Examples?
All the award information entered previously on Freebase have been usually by manual activity by enthusiasts just like you or some staff members seasonally. The infobox template of Wikipedia is scrapped by us in a rudimentary fashion for some types of mappings, but it hasn't been set up internally on our side for everything in WP infoboxes (that's because we probably haven't been keeping up with the evolution of the infoboxes on WP? No idea.). I don't know if we scrap Academy Awards from the infoboxes, I'll try to find out on Monday.
Gordon
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Check out the previous Academy Awards:
http://www.freebase.com/view/en/82nd_academy_awards
There's not a single nomination / winner listed. I think this is the case for most ceremonies. But if you go to the page with Best Picture winners, they're all perfectly there. If you edit that page you see not a single ceremony is listed except for 2008 Slumdog Millionaire, which I just did. It's not a really big problem, I was just wondering if this was an error in the Wikipedia scraper.
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As far as I can tell, all data for Academy (and the other film awards) are being entered manually via the spreadsheet loader or otherwise more manually, and that for 2009 films and 2008 films the award ceremony data was not present in those data loads/assertions. So neither users nor our template scraper are (consistently) attempting to assert which specific award ceremony those nominations belong, just that film topica and people topics to the specific award nomination/award won topics and years.
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Award Ceremony is also a fairly recent addition to the award schema, so probably most of the awards entered were before it was added.
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That explains it, thank you guys :-)
I also have another question (not sure if I need to make a new topic): Films series are stored seperately, and not in the first movie of the series, right? Today I created a view of topics that both had the type film and film series, and fixed a lot of those. I also applied some for splitting.
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The "Love Conquers All" cut is already represented in the main topic, but I don't think we've got a way to associate the Netflix ID with just that cut.
We may want to hold off merging until we figure out the right way to handle.
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Could one of the film admins please comment on what should be done here? Thanks.
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Tricky. We don't have a way currently with associating keys to film cut. That said, it might be possible to link a film cut to a specific netflix or other site's key. I shall ask those more familiar with keys. Hmm, can we expand film cut mediator with a link to key that is already linked to the main topic?
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We currently have no package concept for Netflix products in Film at this time, so all the keys for the various versions of Brazil (or Bladerunner, or Star Wars: A New Hope, etc.) released go to the film topic. We don't want to associate keys with film cuts as we then make it more difficult to resolve to the film topic itself from a key attached to the film cut mediator. Merge please.
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Hi,
I just added this movie, but now I don't know how I can add a IMDb web-id to it. Can somebody please help? :-)
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Hi. Welcome to Freebase.
What you've done (adding the URL in the links section) is all you can do right now. You used to be able to add the identifiers directly, but that got turned off and is supposed to be replaced at some point in the future by a background process which inspects the URLs and turns the relevant ones into real identifiers. There has been no announced time frame for when this capability will be introduced.
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Hi Martjin --
Most of our "Web ID" spaces, including IMDB, are curated and therefore have write permissions set on them. Members of the Film Domain Owners group can add these keys via MQL; I've crossposted this thread there. Can any of you guys help Martjin out?
Also, as Tom points out, your weblink contribution will eventually get turned into a web ID -- if you have other movies you'd like to add, then the path of least resistance may be just to do the weblinks and leave it at that.
Thanks for your contribution!
Brian
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Well, I did so manually via MQL for this film. Hmmm, an acre app would be brilliant for these occasional one-off assertions (if only I had time while learning mastering all my other new tasks).
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How to add that this model made an appearance in a music video "Mann Kyun Behka Ri Behka" ?
also posted to-
Anyone ?
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Film -> personal appearance ? Personal film appearance
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Can't do that.
According to the wiki:
Music Videos and Music Video Compilations may resemble films in having actors, dialogue, plot but are almost always specific promotional video(s) for a specific song(s) or set of songs if a medley (e.g.: Thriller, Girls Just Want To Have Fun, November Rain, Depeche Mode's 1988 compilation of videos called Strange). As of this time we have no commons type for music videos.
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That seems a little silly to me. I can't see why that specific genre should be single out among all the other shorts, promotional films, etc, etc.
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Not silly at all ;)
To me, music videos are clearly their own special and unique form of video entertainment. Music videos are very unique from of entertainment that I personally think would be best modeled apart from films. If we never intend to have a music video type I would reluctantly agree we should lump them in with film as a genre of music video (we have modeled music videos in the past internally as an training exercise for new staff several times I believe, unfortunately never implemented). Music videos bridge music and film domains and I believe they belong more in music that in film. We just need to get cracking on that music video type (which will include non-musical performer roles).
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Ok Gordon,
So can you personally put "a little more love" into a new type for /music_video since we agree that their unique ? Awards are given for /music_video (s) as well, like the MTV VMA awards and Cravefest Music Awards? Probably just need to start with a small handful of properties for now.
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Be happy to, might be next week as my plate is overfull this week.
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to freebase, and I'm also slightly confused as to the best way to add new data to existing collections. I'd like to be able to add the barcodes for films (and books, albums and so on) into the freebase so that people can have a reliable way of looking up information based on barcodes.
At the moment Amazon provides a barcode lookup api, but it links to film titles, not a specific film so the string matching that comes afterwards with a service like IMDB can end up with some false matches. There isn't really a good free source of UPC/barcode data online and freebase seems like the perfect carrier!
Do any of you have good ideas about how to stitch the barcode base (http://www.freebase.com/view/base/barcode) into the film collection?
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hi jphastings! welcome to freebase. you're totally right about freebase being a good carrier for barcodes., and im suprised no one has yet loaded anything. amazon data is copyrighted though im pretty sure. http://wiki.freebase.com/wiki/License_compatibility
it'd be easy to add barcodes to films though, the film would be typed as 'film', and also 'barcoded item'.
its a really good project. let me know if i can help you...
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:D You may have to run me through this though, I have the Tron 20th Anniversary Collector's Edition DVD in front of me (the UK, hence region 2 version) it's got UPC 5017188885614 so how would I go about entering that?
Tron can be found at http://www.freebase.com/view/en/tron, but this barcode represents a DVD, so should I make/find a DVD then add the barcode to that? Or should I add the barcode-item type to film directly? How would I show that this barcode is for UK, Region 2, Collector's edition?
Thanks for your patience!
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hmm. region 2 sounds like a barcode system ? but if not, maybe the schema needs an extra field, like 'barcode system'->upc, 'barcode region'->2 i really dont understand these rules very well.
am not sure how the film people model different dvd editions. like whether modelling a dvd release is supported in the schema yet. this is a good question. .
anyone know ?
i wouldnt object to saying the 'film' thon is 5017188885614. but maybe others prefer a closer modelling...
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I believe the region he may be referring to is the dvd encoding region?
Regarding DVDs on Film, it can currently be picked up in Film Cut under Runtime and that allows for a Release Region. Not ideal but perhaps manageable with a little schema work?
j
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Sorry if I wasn't clear there! Yeah, My point was that for a single film there will be multiple barcodes (ie. the Region 2 DVD which is sold in Britain, the Region 1 DVD sold in the US and any number of re-releases).
So I don't think we could simply have a 'barcode' field for each film - there would need to be a way to assign information to the relation between film and barcode too! Unfortunately I'm not even slightly conversant in freebase so I'll have to let you guys figure out a good way to make this work!
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A dvd release isn't a Consumer product ? I think a specific type with region, audio languages, subtitles languages ... would be welcome.
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Pretty much as Zeusi says.
Dvd/Bluray release would be an edition of the film, like a book edition is for books, as were the Laserdiscs, VHS tapes, CDVs in the past. Then there would be the digital versions purchased/rented through iTunes and other online stores. Which in turn would be related to the watch on demand products from your TV service providers or rental stores like Netflix in the USA. All of these could be stored as unique instances in Film Cut property in Film but wouldn't be very easy to separate out the various editions of a film being re-released on DVD/Bluray with new special additional bonus features or minus other features.
We've had some great debates internally about capturing packaging/products and not settled on any good schema (yet).
So in my opinion a new topic would be a type of release of Blade Runner (DVD/Bluray/Digital Download/etc.) which would have a name of the edition (Ultimate Director's Revision), runtime(s), release region, UPC, film rating, and some means to capture the additional video/photographic material presented (making of video, interviews, toys included with package.
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how to view information in barcodes
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can we add dates for when a work was composed (start, end)? i'd like to start building timeline visualizations of this. this is particularly applicable to classical music but could be generally useful. for instance a timeline of brahms's symphonys (it took him ~14 years to write it because he felt so pressured coming after beethoven's 9th).
secondly - place composed (probably non unique) would be interesting for mapping the works composed. for example - dvorak's new world symphony and american string quartet, and mapping liszt's travels. in general there's quite a lot of data on location composed particularly for classical music that we could easily structure.
thirdly - and this is more complicated, at least for classical music, we should capture the catalog ID - which for many composers is an opus, number combination, but for mozart it was K for Ludwig Ritter von Köchel and haydn and bach also had their own thing.
fourthly - we should also capture key for classical compositions.
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and some more ideas:
to whom the composition was dedicated is often interesting.
who (person, or sometimes entity such as the san francisco opera) commisioned the work is also often interesting.
location, date, and performer of the premeir is also often interesting.
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As with most good user suggestions, I will say: Go try it out!
The question of catalog keys is easiest. Go make /user/arielb/koechel, and create an enumerated property for a Mozart composition type. Other notable catalogs (Schickele) can be similarly modeled. Opus numbers could be a machine-readable string, but probably on a Classical composition type; other compositions do not tend to have those.
The key, dedication, commission, première, all seem like good properties for classical compositions as well.
The date and place of composition is an interesting challenge, an example of a frequent modeling challenge in Freebase. Representing this information complicates the model when done properly; one really wants the composer-composition relationship to be a CVT. However, most compositions don’t have this information readily available, making it an unnecessary composition. Would it be acceptable to have the date(s) and place of composition simply depending from the composition itself? That would mean, for example, that one could not correctly describe compositions begun by one composer and completed by another.
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ok - i'll look into the catalog numbers seperately in a classical music domain once i get around to it.
i set up a user domain for dedications (Dedicated Work). I think this could be generally useful (applied to literature and what not) and does not need to be directly tied to composition.
Place of composition should likely be non unique since there are numerous instances where the composer travelled while writing the piece. I think for modeling place composed similar to places lived is sufficient. Similarly, capturing a start and end date is also likely sufficient. Modelling compositions begun by one composer and finished by others is basically just hard (see this example) and happens infrequently enough that i think if someone cared enough they could break out the variant completions into seperate compositions. but for simplicity's sake, i think just having a date begun, date completed pair on the composition itself would help capture lots of useful data.
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Been thinkin about the right way to handle place and dates of composition.
I think the creation of any work of art (including theater, film, visual art, whatever) should be considered a /project/project with the /music/composition being the /project/project_focus. This allows for multiple roles for collaborative works as well as start/end dates for each role and subsection. I would go as far to say that every major work of art should have a property that points to the project of it's creation.
I've been trying to figure out if a creative process deserves to be a child class of /project/project, but I can't think of a compelling reason.
Now, location isn't so much a property of a composition as it is a property of the composer (or author or sculptor) at the time of their participation in the /project/project. So map Liszt's travels in his own /person/person/places_lived cvt and then you can implicitly figure out where he was when he was involved in the /project/project focusing on each piece. This would require a more detailed places_lived field than most artists currently have, but I think that's a good thing.
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For some compositions, the location composed actually had an impact on the work itself such as String Quartet No. 12. This also enables interesting views of compositions such as Locations for Mozart compositions.
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Hi Krsalis, I see you've been flagging a lot of awards (eg. 1958 New York Film Critics Circle Awards) for delete. These are event topics, instances of the recurring event "New York Film Critics Circle Awards" (or whatever), and I don't think they should be deleted. Am I missing something?
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This is an interesting issue: does 1958 New York Film Critics Circle Awards represent an event (an awards ceremony, I suppose), in which case it belongs in Freebase, or is it a list, in which case it should be deleted?
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Krsalis and I already exchanged posts on these - and Jeff commented there as well. The New York Film Critics Awards have been modeled like the Academy Awards. See what I've done here:
http://www.freebase.com/edit/topic/en/new_york_film_critics_circle_awards
It is an award with categories and each year is an instance of a recurring event - the annual awards ceremony. When I noticed Krsalis flagging, I posted to him and also went and typed each year as an instance.
Krsalis acknowledged they should not have been flagged.
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Scud -- yes, a case of temporary insanity. Once Jon pointed it out to me, I got the event thing (though I also see Jeff's concerns as valid). I tried to revert my delete flags, but I may have missed a bunch. Since then, I've been on a mission to type those recurring events as such so that someone like me will not be tempted to flag them for delete (see Razzies).
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I believe it may be advantageous to separate out the role of an Executive Producer from that of the Producer (and Assistant/Associated Producer).
We could do it simply with a new property for Executive produced by, example on sandbox, that points to Film producer. Regular production and associated/assistant production would remain with original property.
(Better might be inserting a mediator between Produced by and Film Producer, with enumerated topics for Executive, Associate, Assistant, and blank for the regular credit.)
Any objections? Improvements?
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I prefer inserting the mediator, although it's a breaky change. It would bring film into line with TV shows, though: TV Producer term
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I think the break would be pretty catastrophic given how many apps are built on Film now.
I would strongly prefer a new property over mediating the Producer relationship.
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Well, that's pretty true. Thinking about it further, it does seem that an executive producer in film is a completely different sort of role than the other various types of producers (despite the similiarity of names), so creating a new property makes sense. Next question: should it expect the existing Film Producer type or a new Film Executive Producer type?
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I'd prefer the former, both pointing to film producer which would have films produced and films executive produced as a return linkages... Well that doesn't scan too well. Served as executive film producer on ... ?
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Funkily enough, "executive produced" does seem to be a fairly standard usage, amongst industry media, anyway.
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Added Casting, Production Design, Art Direction to the sandbox /film/film type for your perusal.
If no-one is objecting I could make these live on production late Monday, Nov 16 2009.
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Done, we now have Executive producer, Production designer, Art director, Casting director, and Set decorator as distinct properties, rest, as usual, go into the Other crew mediator.
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Hi, what's the difference between Film Crew Role, which has zero instance, and Film Job? I was going to enter Grip as a Film Crew Role, but quickly realized that it already had type Film Job.
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Film Crew Role was an old modeling attempt and should be deprecated (or just deleted). Film Job is the right type.
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Since it has no properties and no instances, and no incoming links of note, I think deleting Film Crew Role will be unobjectionable. I'll run it through the old type deletion process anyway, though.
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The majority of Concert Film instances are cotyped Film and Musical Album, something I used to consider an unholy incompatibility. Is it not so?
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I've seen that as well. They really should be split as they are distinct works. Imagine somebody rating the soundtrack -- they probably don't think they are also rating the film, which has many other qualities to it.
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Would it be fair to say that Film and Musical Album are incompatible types, and should therefore never be found applied to the same instances? If so I'll submit the pairing under our incompatible types records.
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Yes. They are incompatible types.
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Would it be possibly to generalize Soundtrack so it doesn't expect a Film. There are soundtracks for TV shows and anime, and I could deprecate the Anime OVA Soundtrack type.
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That is a bit odd. The description explicitly says that a soundtrack is for either a film or tv show, but the property is only for film. It seems to me that the options are:
- add a "TV show" property to soundtrack
- create separate types for Film soundtrack and TV soundtrack
- completely generalize the soundtrack type, and create a new type "Media with soundtrack" that will link to it (instead of Film)
I don't especially like #3 (for one, there's a Musical Soundtrack type with slightly different semantics than the film one). On the other hand, we do seem to be missing a video game soundtrack type.
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Yup, 3, generic soundtrack with enumerated soundtrack types would be my favorite, or 1.
TV/Film/Game/Boardgame/Advertisements...
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hello, i was just trying to map the Zapruder film
and i think we should slit this type in two. one for 'general film' that includes youtube videos and stuff, and another for motion pictures with 'director' etc preoperties.take a look at what i started with Footage i dont want to denormalise things.
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This is just a matter of semantics and not that big of a deal, but has there been any talk about changing properties that use the name "prequel" to something else? It should refer to works that are published after a work, but occur earlier in the narrative.
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I agree with this -- I used "next in series" when I added this pattern to the Written Work type, and I think a similar nomenclature would work for films and computer games.
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I presume that this is intended to capture the order in the narrative as opposed to the order that they were written/published in, but that's not clear (at least to me) from the description for the property in Written Work.
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I've updated it a bit; I don't want to be too prescriptive, because there are some series (Naria, for example) in which the order of the books doesn't necessarily follow the internal chronology, but it should be clearer now.
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I wonder if it would be better to name properties like this "previous/next in narrative" or "previous/next in chronology" to make it less ambiguous. Referring to series could suggest that it should follow series numbers (xxx 1, xxx 2, etc.), even when the narrative might not follow the same order.
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Updated the Computer Game property names of prequel/sequel as next/previous in narrative. Don't know if I should change the actual property ids or leave them as is, though.
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there really should be a "remake of" relation.
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For now, we use the more media generic relationship of adapted work -to- adaptation, for film remakes (and books to film, films to broadway musicals and all other types of inspirations of one media topic for the creation of a another media topic).
See The Producers for example.
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hi, check out my general festival type, which i hope can properly map film festivals aswell as parades etc... wanna work together?
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It is simply a possible 2011 film according to IMDB with no names currently attached to it. Wikipedia source article no longer exists.
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I'm voting keep. I thought it was going to be our practice to treat pre-production films as film topics. I think IMDB pro attached Al Pacino to it. Robert?
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There's no real evidence anymore of anybody attached to it nor is there a wikipedia page, it has been deleted and redirects to the original film page on WP.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0475871/ for a speculative 2011 date with nobody attached to it.
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shouldn't the fil/production_company type have an expected property of films_produced? would make my life easier ;)
j
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Doesn't it have it? Called Films? HBO has a production company type with a films property.
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It does now - because Robert added it for me today. The reciprocal property connectione for production comany/films produced wasn't there until this afternoon - but I'm forever grateful!
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I have been trying to upload lists of filming locations. I have lists of a lot of different cities in the United states that I would like to upload but when I use the list uploader for FIlming location, I have no option to add the flims shot in those locations as well. Can this be added or is there some way, currently, for me to do this.
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For Hollywood films from the early talkies to the early eighties there would often be a featured popular song or two (usually specifically written for the film). The song would be sold as a single (a precursor to the slick commmercialized prepackaged would be mega-hit soundtrack albums with Top-40 pop songs barely heard in the actual film in the 1980s onwards)
"Moon River" for Breakfast at Tiffany's
"The Way We Were" for movie of the same name.
"As Time Goes By" for Casablanca
"Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head" for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
These are songs that are indelibly linked to the film. I'd like to specifically capture the relationship. What does the community think?
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Dirty Dancing, "Time of my life"
Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome, "We don't need another hero"
Ye gods, I hadn't realised quite how prevalent those are and how awful. *shudders*
I'm in favour of capturing the relationship, even if it does give me 80s flashbacks.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Theme_music is making it worse. Ghostbusters! Goonies! Lost Boys! Weird Science! One Night in Bangkok! Shaft!
Looks like Bond movies are particularly notorious for having featured theme songs.
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"Gooooldfinger!" Shirley Bassey ruled the roost of the House of Bond in the 1960's
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Example on Sandbox here on Featured film song type (added as a property to /film/film with performed by and included type of /music/song).
Worth it, adds interest, not so great, don't do it?
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Hey, I joined freebase not too long ago and have been using it to build an app that lets users mark which films they have watched or own on dvd or blu-ray. I've run into the issue of TV shows not being in the Film category, which leads to my question.
Is there a possibility of a data type that tracks home video releases? This would be a sub-type for both Film and TV shows. I realize that may be a lot of work, so it might be far down the road, but I thought I'd suggest it.
Overall freebase is a fantastic service. I really hope to see it take off in a big way.
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Is Film Producer only for people? I ask because there are many film companies that are typed as Film Producer, which then adds the Person type to the topic.
If Film Producer is only for people, then is there a way we can make that more obvious? (like stating that in the description?) If not, then can we stop having the Person type auto-added when Film Producer is assigned?
Thanks
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Our wiki-bot mwcl_infobox cannot differentiate between what is a person and what is a company when both are listed as 'producer' in the source page's infobox.
The companies should be moved out of the producer property and be placed in the production comapny property...Unfortunately a mostly manual gardening task I'm afraid.
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We will see if we can't clean this up, it appears most of the companies were entered into freebase earlier than this year as film producers (before we had our currently much more discerning bot that checks for person and company types). Al & I will see what we can do to move the obvious company names to film production company.
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OK, thanks for the help. I think I removed the Person type from all the production companies, so we may be able to search on Film Producers that are not flagged as Person. That may be easier than trying to go through the Producers one by one.
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Hi all,
I have been using Freebase for a little while now to index my movie collection (where film information exist in Freebase) and, eventually, upload film information back to Freebase. I have subtitles for the majority of my films and think they would make a valuable addition to the Freebase Film schema (imagine querying for who said a particular line and in which films).
How would I go about adding a Subtitles schema to Freebase and linking it to the Films/TV schema?
Alternatively, if this schema already exists, could somebody point me at it? I searched but couldn't find it.
Cheers,
Ian
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It's great that you are finding a good use of our service! Thanks!
Our goal is to provide linkages between sets of data, not really to be a repository for data in of itself...
Thus we provide an excerpt of the associated wikipedia article as a blurb (but not recreate the entire article, that's what the linkages (and keys) back to Wikipedia are for. We allow for weblinks to sites that have specific and useful information about the topic but is of a restrictive licensed nature (IMDb for example).
Our database is not set up for large amounts of text. We encourage the use of text for specific notation about a specific property but not for than about almost a thousand characters.
Secondly, legality.
Your subtitles are a form of film script and would most likely be considered as property of the creators/owner of the film. At best they would be a grey area of legality to be made available in text form outside of the film, video tape or disc.
If it was a film you wrote and owned outright, and was published with an CC license, the providing the subtitles externally from the film would most likely be legal in that case ;)
What you could do is create your own type in your own private domain (default one or a more specifically named 'Film Subtitles' domain). The type could designed to contain what subtitles in what editions of the film (Theatrical Release/DVD/TV Broadcast) in what languages...Check out how the Film Regional Release Date is designed, though it may need not be a Compound Value Type.
http://www.freebase.com/tools/schema/film/film_regional_release_date -
Hi Ian --
Subtitles would be covered by copyright protection, so you would only be allowed to add them from films from the public domain or with an open license (such as CC-BY).
Copyright law, however, does allow small fragments from copyrighted works to be cited. I don't know what the limits are, but I imagine that many short subtitle snippets would be allowed per movie, perhaps from key scenes.
Also, aside from the contents of the subtitles themselves, what kind of metadata would you imagine having for subtitles? Freebase could store that information without restrictions.
R -
Hi Ian,
Don't be discouraged. What you are doing is very valuable. Many people speculate about U.S. copyright law though they are not experts.
I'm not an expert either, but I work in the area of subtitles and film captions, specifically for accessibity for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing in the U.S. - 30 million people. (About as many people as the entire population of Canada!)
Regarding your efforts and copyright law, one of the main issues is whether you are aiming to be seeking any profit from your efforts. If you are just seeking to build up an index of film characters and quotes, you are probably within the Fair Use doctrine, and can carry on, as long as you indicate appropriate copyright notices on the material you post.
In this period of global cross-cultural communication, your work has many possible uses which would certainly fall within the Fair Use doctrine of copyright law, including making available information needed for making film/video accessible to Deaf in U.S., Deaf in non-English speaking cultures, and non-English language access to films/videos not otherwise subtitled or dubbed.
I just heard an interview with David Huynh, new guy at FreeBase.com, and it sure sounds like he is making interaces to browse and view specific data details exactly along the lines you mention.
You might check out some sites like:
mysubtitles.org
dotsub.com
good luck,
Greg
owner
DeafAccessFilms.com
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Some /film/film instances have multiple values under "initial_release_date" property.
An example is Gridlock'd [ http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000086440a ]
Usually there is a full ISO format date (e.g. 1997-01-01] and a year-only date (e.g. 1997).
Is this a bug? The dates do not appear to be tied to a release in a particular country or anything like that.
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Hmm, looks like inital release date is not restricted to one value, and if you look at the history, it looks like mw_template_bot is adding the date instead of updating.
Another good question is, what led you to check out the topic about the movie Gridlock'd!!!
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It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that the release dates would be added instead of updated. Is this expected behaviour?
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It's not expected; I'll try to track down who did the update and let them know.
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Thanks Bryan!
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I added three properties to type Film on Sandbox with several supporting types that cover:
1. Production companies -- this is a simple relationship between type Film and type Production Company.
2. Distributors -- This connects type film to type Film Distributor through a Compound Relationship Type (CRT) called Film-Film distributor relationship which includes properties for the year of distribution, the film cut type (director's, special edition) and the medium of distribution (Theatrical, VHS, DVD).
3. Other film companies -- This connects film to companies other than production companies and distrubutors (which are normally accorded a special status, so therefore singled out.) Type Film here connects to "Film Company" via a CRT called "Film-Film company relationship" which includes properties for the role or service provided by that company and which film cut type it contributed to.
Note here that I'm using a couple of new naming conventions. First, I'm suggesting the use of "CRT" for Compound Relationship Type instead of CVT or Compound value Type. This distinction will become increasingly important in the upcoming months as we bake a deeper distinction between these patterns into MQL.
Second, I've named these CRTs with a new convention that describes it as a relationship between two types. For example, "Film-Film company relationship" connects the types Film and Film company.
Here's a film topic example that includes all three ne properties filled out:
http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f80000000000665b4
You'll have to scroll down to the bottom of the Film section.
Please let me know what you think.
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Nice. I wonder if it would make sense to create the reverse properties for the production companies, film companies, and film distributors. The reverse on production companies in particular seems like it would be useful; the others perhaps somewhat less so.
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I added these types to the production site and I reciprocated the relationships from the company types.
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Some /film/film instances have multiple values for initial_release_date property.
Example is:
Gridlock'd [ http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000086440a ]
Is this a bug? The dates do not seem tied to e.g. a release in a particular country, and generally I have noticed that there is a full ISO date and a year-only date value.
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Costume Design as a trade is quite distinct from Theatrical Costume Design in areas of responsibility (gentle hint to those responsible for the Theater domain)
All to find a niche for the inestimable Edith Head.
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When an actor plays himself in a film, the performance entry triggers the actor topic to be co-typed as:
- Film character
- Fictional character
- Film actor
- Person
OK, a little strange, but understandably so.
But the explosion of parallel and confusing properties that then appears on the actor's page becomes rather difficult to navigate:
- Gender, Place of Birth, Parents, Children, Siblings, Quotations, all appear twice (Person, Fictional Character)
- Married To (Fictional Character) vs. Spouse(s) (Person)
- Profession (Person) vs. Occupation (Fictional Character)
- Employment History (Person) vs. Employers (Fictional Character)
What amuses me is that the Person type has an Education property missing from Fictional Character, while Fictional Character has Powers or Abilities that we didn't give to Person. There are additional properties unique to each type.
This is an extreme case, but one problem is that it's hard to figure out which property belong to which type. Perhaps the actor himself is married with kids but plays a single version of himself on screen. And if he happens to have a brilliant line in the film (Quotation property), credit should be given to the writer as well. Perhaps a UI feature to indiate/group properties by type?
Another problem is duplicate properties (that belong to the same universe) that result from co-typing. But I guess the solution to that is at the schema level rather than any UI feature.
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I wanted list the movies to AFI's Top 100 for the last 100 years. However, I need an extension to the Film Collection type. Ideally, Film List would extend Film Collection as an enumerated collection of films with a specific order. I need to state #1 is Citizen Kane for example.
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Ordered lists are possible, although the freebase UI currently doesn't show the number. See this help topic:
http://www.freebase.com/view/helptopic?id=%239202a8c04000641f8000000003c1b1cc
Once you set the ordering, they will be ordered by default in any application that uses the collections. -
Great. It would be nice to view the numbering along with the value since a movie's ranking is of value.
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I see it exists, but is not currently linked to within film...Is it meant to be a co-type to be applied when desired?
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I used it in a demo just yesterday. I guess we would have to be clear about when the film format is used -- for filming? For initial feature presentation? Also, it seems like there are a bunch of digital standards with equivalent semantics. I wonder if there is a larger blanket term that includes both video and film?
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Definitely for initial capture...That's what most sites that catalog movies seem to prefer.
Then later on we introduce an editions property maybe, with relevant formats for how it is viewable...35 mm film, digital (whatever formats we ever end up using, seems up in the air as you have mentioned), DVD, laserdisk, 8 mm. Then we'd get into viewing ratios :) -
I added a property for film format. Have fun!
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We need something like the Book Editions property for the variations in releases that can occur when movies have different running times for the various countries (quite common in the 30's through the 70's for foreign made films when they come to America they get edited down in running time) or when a movie is re-released later on with additional scenes and edits like "Close Encounters of the Third Time."
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Hmmm...Runtime has the note property, so I suppose you could add date and country for specific runtimes.
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The "film cut" CVT could be expanded. The note was a placeholder for things like "director's cut" or "special edition", which probably could be real topics. An additional property could optionally show the country or region (suggesting a new type 'film region' which could overlay any location.)
Does this sound reasonable? -
The "film cut" CVT could be expanded. The note was a placeholder for things like "director's cut" or "special edition", which probably could be real topics. An additional property could optionally show the country or region (suggesting a new type 'film region' which could overlay any location.)
Does this sound reasonable? -
Yes, a classic example of alternate running time versions is the Russian film War & Peace having different running times
Dune with it's many versions on film, tv, with/without David Lynch (Alan Smithee for the unauthorized re-edits). -
I just changed the "film cut" CVT. Tell me what you think. Also -- the region property points to location, not a co-type.
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The Alan Smithee case is why I left the "note" field. If there are other consistent variables aside from cut ('director's cut', 'special edition') and film release region ('Russia', 'Asia'), then we can add that.
One I think might be appropriate is 'release date', which is distinct from the 'initial release date' that's directly on film.
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So I just noticed a Japanese name in the cast for a Clint Eastwood Spaghetti Western film which puzzled me until I realized he was used to dub Clint's parts for the Japanese theatrical releases. So I have added the "Seiyu" term to 'Special Performance Type' as the vocals-only performance in Japan of Anime and dubbing of foreign titles is specialized art form unique to Japan. But for dubbing maybe the artists should be listed in its own unique property distinct from Film Performance...Dubbed by? With language sub-property as well.
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I just added a type (a CVT/mediator) that represents dubbing performances by actors for the non-original language. It appears as a property on Film now. You can enter the actor, the character and the language used.
http://www.freebase.com/view/schema?id=%2Ffilm%2Fdubbing_performance
http://www.freebase.com/view/schema?id=%2Ffilm%2Ffilm
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Hi! I've just created a few types of my own, and I wonder if it could be added as a property of the Film type. The type to be added is called "File collection mediator" (I take suggestions on changing this, I don't like the name). I'll explain to you the types so you understand the idea. First you have the type "File". This type allows you to define the URL or URLs of where the file is hosted, the size, the version and a couple of things more. Then you have the "File collection" which has a description of that collection and a list of files included. So, the idea is to be able to create, for example, a collection of files with: the trailers of a movie, or with pictures of that movie, or another with wallpapers. What do you think?? Thanks!
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Interesting idea. We do have a couple of things already that may support part of what you're looking for:
- You can add an image to the film's image gallery
- You can add web links to the film's web links. These links can be named
Why is it that you want to put them into discrete collections? Isn't the property a collection already?
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We've completed a migration to a better representation of film performances that replaces "/film/performance/part" (a text string) with "/film/performance/character" (a film character). For now, "part" will stick around for compatibility with existing applications, but we encourage you to make the switch where relevant in your applications as it is now considered deprecated in favor of "character". We've also introduced a distinction between "actors" and "personal appearances", the latter of which should be used for documentary-like appearances (interviews, non-fictional narration, etc.)
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Is there any distinction between a feature-length film and a short?
The reason I ask is that I just checked out the "Looney Tunes" entry, and I see that it is set to type "TV Program". This is not correct, it is really a Film Series, but of shorts. Many short films, both live-action and animated, are parts of series.
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Hi,
I am pretty new to freebase so sorry for asking the obvious. I want to link a film (Dune) to a book (Dune). Is there a way to do this curently. I was kind of thinking that the Film type should have a "Based on book" field. But then I thought that maybe there is a "Based on book" type around since other things could be based on books as well. Any ideas?
Great site by the way. I really enjoy browsing and adding to the content.
Regards,
Fredrik Rubensson-
Hi Fredrik,
Welcome to Freebase! What you looking for is the types 'Adaptation' and 'Adapted Work'. You can go to the Movie, click on Types, and add the type Adaption to it. That'll add an 'Adapted From' property field. If you enter the book there, the book will automatically be typed as an Adapted Work, and each will link to the other.
Cheers,
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Hi, may I suggest a Film Character type, similar to the various fictional character types we have, such as Book Character. Currently a Film Performance has Actor and Part, where the expected type for Part is simply text. It would be nice to be able to create a character topic that can be used for all films containing that character, and co-type it for books containing the same character. Thanks.
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Film Subject doesn't have a reciprocal link right now, so even though the RMS titanic is the subject of the movie Titanic, you don't see a link back to the movie. Personally I think this would be a really useful link, and would encourage people to fill out the "Film Subject" property...it's only a single field so it adds minimal clutter to the Film Subject instances on the other end.
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There's this ever-growing market of titles made for viewing at home (originally video tape, sometimes on laser disk [Japan's anime mostly did this] and now onto DVD). Most often to be found in the video stores.
Where will this go? Some titles are quite clearly films (poorly made low budget sequels mostly, though Disney made lots of sequels this way for it's main titles in this manner), others are quite clearly episodic scripted shows.
There's a huge market of OVA/OAV titles in Japan for short episode runs of anime that never aired on TV/Satellite/Cable/Theatre. I am at a loss on how to categorize such titles as 'Blue Submarine 6' which is a very influential 6 part anime that was released as an OVA.-
Hi Gordon,
Please check out our anime and manga schema currently loaded on the sandbox server -- it may answer some of your questions. It is mostly meant to model anime and manga franchises (like Dragon Ball Z or Cowboy Bebop) but could be extended to cover other OVA releases as well.
http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/domain?id=/anime_manga
Suggestions are welcome!
Colin -
I did a quick model of blue submarine 6 on the sandbox:
http://sandbox.freebase.com/view?id=%239202a8c04000641f80000000004f362f -
Looks pretty good this anime/manga schema does...I wonder if it is necessary to create an 'anime ova' type though...I am assuming 'anime title' could be any film, OVA, TV series and 'release format' to be media type
So it could be for just in the anime realm of the combined anime/manga:
"Blue Submarine 6" - anime title; and "OVA," "DVD," "Video Tape" - media type
"Patlabor 1" - anime title; "Film," "Laser Disk," "DVD," "Video Tape" - media type
"Ah My Goddess! Series 2" - anime title; "TV Series," "DVD" - media type -
Hello Gordon,
Well the current idea is to have anime tile crosstyped as tv, film, or ova. That way you can get all anime from a search for anime title. You also have the added bonus that an anime film is tied to film and an anime tv series is tied to tv, rather than both getting there own weird specialized tv and film types (which would make querying much more difficult)
We have OVA as it's own type mainly to match the infobox on wikipedia (they give it it's own sub-infobox) but also because there are some properties unique to OVAs (or at least OVAs have a lot of things NOT in common with television).
The release format should probably be a compound value type including a format and a date and maybe a region.
If you have any thoughts on any of this, let me know.
Regards,
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Is there a general forum so that I can figure out what're known issues being worked on, and to otherwise help me out with things I might be missing?
I just created a type, Fictional Character, and I set it to link to Film as 'Appeared In.' But when I add a character to the Fictional Character type it adds Film as one of its types. What's up with that?-
Your Fictional Character schema has "Film" as an included type, meaning that every Fictional Character is also a Film. I don't think this is what you intended. I think you'd want to remove Film as an included type from your Fictional Character schema. You could possibly Person as the included type, but that would mean excluding non-human fictional creatures from this type.
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Would it be appropriate to add a couple film types to cover characters/creatures that appear in movies? I just checked Darth Vader and Borat, and they don't really have a type. Also, places that appear in films might have their own type, like Wonka's Chocolate Factory or where have you.
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I second that. We have a People domain, perhaps a Fictional Character would be a good type there, with a Source property pointing back to the origin - movie, book, comic strip, myth, etc. As for Fictional Location, I would like to see a similar data model in perhaps the Location domain.
Until then, it may make sense to type topics like Borat as a Person, and Wonka's Chocolate Factory as a Location, so as to impart properties like Birth Place and Country as appropriate.
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I noticed there are a bunch of instances for film genre but no property for genre in the film schema. What is the plan for adding genres to films?
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Hi Tigerlight! So good you could join us from Myspace.
I just added "Genre" as a film property. Some of the Genres are a little silly, but I'll leave them all in for now, and clean them up as we go. -
Hey! I'm not the furry creature at Myspace.
I'm tagging westerns today. Is the term "tagging" okay to describe adding the genre property to films? When I think of tagging it makes me want to add more terms like, frontier, cavalry, cowboys and indians, pioneers, mexican border, settlement. But those terms create a lot of noise for genre. Will there be a way to do sloppy tagging like delicious and other folksonomies? -
Genres are about as sloppy as we get in Metaweb. People are encouraged to add as many genres to a film that help define it.
It may help make films easier to query by genre if there are fewer genres overall. If a genre is very obscure, it's unlikely that other people are going to add it to films, so coverage is bad and therefore the genre isn't that useful.
Sloppy tagging and folksonomies make sense, but they wouldn't be as specific as film genre in this case. This sounds a lot like the "related topics" property we once had on the Topic (originally Concept) type. We could easily bring that back if people would find it useful. -
I think the genre section here illustrates problems that are likely to occur in data models developed by communities whose members are working in isolation. It's much easier to create quality Wikipedia content, I think, than to create quality controlled vocabularies on a community site. Genre is admittedly one of the most subjective metadata topics I've ever come across. I have more genre lists than I have socks. However, a brief glance at this list reveals:
Action/Drama/Thriller -- as well as "Action," "Drama," and "Thriller" as individual categories.
"Short Subject" is generally thought of as a format, not a genre.
I think "Cult" appears on the list three times. "Crime" is on there a couple times. Are these intended to represent slightly different semantics on the same term, or is there no redundancy checking on the type name?
I disagree with your definition of "Documentary." The first films weren't intended to describe a subject, they were really just intended to show the audience a moving image -- that was enough of a thrill at the time. The Library of Congress calls these "Actuality" films. "Reality" is of course a different genre. Who's right or who's wrong is not the problem. If I add "Actuality" to your list, it will conflict with your definition of Documentary. And then it does seem that your data is sloppy and contradicts itself. What's the Metaweb position on this problem? I only see it getting worse as there are more users.
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It would be nice to have "Movie Studio" - there are references to them in many of the film articles, such as "..a movie by Warner Brothers".. etc
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In the mass typing, we created "Film Company", which is a bit more generic. Wikipedia conflates studio to mean the place where something was filmed with the company that funded the film throughout the categories, so I decided to load them together as a more generic term, Film Company.
If we were to add properties on Film, then I would suggest distinguishing the studios where something was filmed from the funder from the distributor. -
Film company and movie studio are really generic in this use. At Mystery Movie Studio where I might happen to work, we rent our soundstages to other studios all the time. We do special effects for movies from other studios. We may do sound and post-production for other studios as well. There are production entities, releasing companies, distributors, studios, etc. I think what you're really talking about here is the releasing company, but perhaps I'm splitting the hair too finely for those outside of the industry.
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At this point there seems to be no way to differentiate between the two types. One has to put both the original author and the screenplay author in the same property. Would it be possible to add in something like original author or something to that affect as a property?
Also (this is something quite specific to the Indian film industry aka Bollywood) the music director in Hindi films is usually different from the 'sound directors'. The difference being that the music director sets the music to the songs (which are usually written by somebody else!!). The sound directors usually set the score for the movie (aka background music). Is there any way to represent this information in the current setup?-
We could split the 'written by' property into two: "screenplay by" and "story by". The assumption would be that if only the screenplay value existed it would mean that the person in the "screenplay by" property would also be the story writer.
I could make such a change now and we could start teasing apart the property values, so that Shakespeare, for instance, does not appear on the "screenplay by" property (nor does he appear to be a "film writer).
I'm not sure I understand your second idea. I'll talk to you directly. -
I just added the "story by" property and renamed "written by" to be "screenplay by". The new "story by" property points to the type "film story contributor".
Please feel free to fix any films where the story contributor should be split out. -
I was wondering if screenplay could be a type like book or even a subtype of book (if that's possible). Then we could have properties along the lines of original and adapted, author, adapter (if there's such a word) and some book/printing related properties too. That would also allow us to classify printed and bound screenplays like Pulp Fiction which one can buy at a bookstore. Just my two cents.
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Interesting. We could definitely have a screenplay type, which could either be in the film domain or the book domain.
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A book is not a screenplay unless the screenplay has been published.
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