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        1.  

          Calendars as a Publication with a Creative Work ?

          also posted to
          • Pirelli Calendar,
          • Periodical,
          • Publication,
          • Media
          2 posts, latest post: thadguidry, Jan 15, 2012
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            thadguidry Freebase Experts
            Jan 15, 2012
            thadguidry says:

            Fact: 1997 Pirelli Calendar has a glamour photo (a creative work) that has Nikki Uberti as the credited model (Creative Work Subject ? dunno). I did make her the subject of the glamour photo page topic itself however. I think that is OK.

            I am struggling with how to connect all the dots and deal with Calendars themselves as a Publication.

            Here is what I have so far:

            The glamour photo page in the 1997 Pirelli Calendar of Nikki Uberti: http://www.freebase.com/view/m/0hz7jm_

            The 1997 Pirelli Calendar instance: http://www.freebase.com/view/m/0hz7jhg

            The Periodical instance of the annual Pirelli Calendar: http://www.freebase.com/view/en/pirelli_calendar

            The Periodical instance is the one that just sort of feels...weird...and it also is disconnected from the 1997 Pirelli Calendar instance. Help here is what is needed somehow to make the connection. I am not sure if the Media Commons might have some "work to do" that might also help with this overall ?

            All ears, -Thad

            1.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Jan 15, 2012
              thadguidry says:

              Here's the listing of years and models: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirelli_Calendar

          Discussion is posted in:

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          • close Periodical
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          • close Media
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        2.  

          New property and included type for Amusement park area

          also posted to
          • Amusement Parks,
          • Amusement Park Area,
          • alexander
          2 posts, latest post: gmackenz, Dec 5, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
            Dec 5, 2011
            gmackenz says:

            I think there should be a date open/closed associated with a park area (or at least an opening day). I think dated location would be fine for this. Also since areas have themes we should capture that with a Amusement park theme property with an expected type of the same name.

            1.  
              gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
              Dec 5, 2011
              gmackenz says:

              Maybe project focus as well to capture who designed/constructed the Amusement park area.

          Discussion is posted in:

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          • close Amusement Park Area
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          • close alexander

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        3.  

          US Census County Division

          also posted to
          • Lopez CCD,
          • Location,
          • tfmorris
          5 posts, latest post: tfmorris, Sep 13, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            thadguidry Freebase Experts
            Sep 8, 2011
            thadguidry says:

            I created a new user type of US Census County Division (CCD).

            Reference map here: http://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/dc10map/GUBlock/st53_wa/cousub/cs5305591696_lopez/DC10BLK_CS5305591696_000.pdf

            Table Reference from 2000 census here for code 91696 Lopez CCD: http://mcdc.missouri.edu/webrepts/commoncodes03/ccc_wa.html

            My question is if perhaps a CCD is the same entity type (see lower right of map) as a US Census Designated Place ?

            1.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Sep 8, 2011
              thadguidry says:

              The data that I obtained for Washington State that prompted this whole darn discussion can be viewed and downloaded here for those interested: http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid=S250623z2hO

            2.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Sep 8, 2011
              tfmorris says:

              From looking at the key to that map, I'd say they're different since they have different entries in the key. The Census Bureau uses approximately a bazillion different levels in its hierarchy, including those that you see in the key like block, tract, CDP, CCD, MCD, etc, etc.

              Do you need to know that it's a CCD, or can you just use the generic statistical region type?

              1.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Sep 9, 2011
                thadguidry says:

                The generic statistical region type is too....general.

                I discovered this great document on US Census County subdivisions and all the different types: US Census County subdivisions explained that helps explain several things, in particular page 8-17 on CCDs and 8-28 begins the FIPS 55 identification with importance of a designated code range for CCDs of 90000 - 98999 .

                CCDs are community subcounty divisions that the Census Bureau does not want to change (as stable as possible). The document also explains that there is also a general shift to using CCDs rather than MCDs, but the decision rests entirely with the State officials and State governor.

                I thought it would be nice to have the entities for those subcounty levels (thinking of recent Zagat acquisition from Google and it's strategy of "more local stuff". Hence a need for more area and local statistic entities.

              2.  
                tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
                Sep 13, 2011
                tfmorris says:

                I guess I'm still not seeing what unique properties would be associated with a new type. Name, boundaries, FIPS code, and statistical data are all covered by the existing types.

                The CDP type is leftover from an earlier time and might not get a lot of support today since it's a so-called "tagging" types with no properties are discouraged.

          Discussion is posted in:

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          • close Location
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        4.  

          Fairy Tales author should be made a CVT

          also posted to
          • Fairy Tales,
          • Books,
          • Little Red Riding Hood,
          • tfmorris
          1 post, latest post: thadguidry, Aug 13, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            thadguidry Freebase Experts
            Aug 13, 2011
            thadguidry says:

            The Author property on /base/fairytales/fairy_tale , I think should be changed to something like "Authored versions" and expect an "authored version of fairytale" or something like that.

            Charles Perrault, for instance, did not write Little Red Robin Hood, but he did culminate a version of it and it was retold and written by him.

            Or perhaps even better would be great to see a CVT as that property called "Authored versions" or just "Versions authored" or simply "versions" would then show the Author / Written Work / Date of Publication ?

            You could go to Little Red Riding Hood "fairytale" topic and then see all the versions of it being retold and re-written.

            Doing it this way would make it easier to split off the /written_work topics from those Fairy Tales right now as well

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        5.  

          Request for admin status on Non Profit base

          also posted to
          • Non Profit Organization,
          • Organization
          3 posts, latest post: thadguidry, Jul 24, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            thadguidry Freebase Experts
            Jul 21, 2011
            thadguidry says:

            Hello,

            I would like to begin helping you with your base, and work together, rather than creating my own base for Non Profit Organizations.

            I have vast experience in the Non Profit sector, and have extensive work on Types and effective schema layout as a Freebase Expert. If you need referrals from others, in order to gain trust in making me an additional administrator, then please forward this message to our Freebase-Discuss mailing list and many there can attest to my honesty and knowledge. (I have also include Jeff Prucher, a staffer, on this discussion who might also explain the need for good admins and knowledge experts and back me up ;) )

            One particular Type that is needed right now is a "Fiscal Sponsor" which would have a few properties under it. Properties such as '# of sponsored projects' and 'Fiscal Sponsorship' which could be a Mediator type. Freebase has /business/sponsor but it cannot be used in the same context of the legal term "Fiscal Sponsor", hence the need for a completely independent type with a few unique properties that only apply to it. It can also be co-typed where appropriate, such as Non-profit organization (but not all Fiscal Sponsor are Non Profit Organizations!). To give an example: the organization called "Software Freedom Conservancy" would be typed as a "Fiscal Sponsor". I can explain further details later on.

            Please reply so that I can further assist you in expanding your base (and all for free!).

            1.  
              danny
              Jul 23, 2011
              danny says:

              Happy to have you! I will make you an admin. -Danny

              1.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Jul 24, 2011
                thadguidry says:

                Ah, Danny ! I am truly honored. Thanks !

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        6.  

          Maybe it's time for a Baseball Pitcher type?

          also posted to
          • Baseball,
          • micahsaul
          3 posts, latest post: micahsaul, Jul 14, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
            Jul 14, 2011
            gmackenz says:

            There's been a previous discussion about handedness for throwing for the Baseball player type, but maybe we should have a distinct type for the pitcher as it is a relatively unique set of statistics (at least it appears so to me). There's also need for pitching statistics and lifetime pitching statistics for ERA, Strikouts, Win-Loss, etc.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 14, 2011
              jeff says:

              I think the original suggestion of adding pitching handedness (and also pitching stats) to Baseball Player is simpler. A "pitcher" type would denormalize the position property, and since a large percentage of pitchers also have hitting stats, I think it makes sense to put them on one type.

            2.  
              micahsaul Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 14, 2011
              micahsaul says:

              Additionally, some pitchers are also position players. Having all the relevant stats on Baseball Player makes the most sense to me.

              I just checked Retrosheet, and it looks like it'd be pretty easy to load all the pitching stats from there. See, for example, http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/W/Pwilsb001.htm

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        7.  

          Question about ontology

          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Jul 11, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            wtf
            Jul 11, 2011
            wtf says:

            Hy there - I adress this questin to you, cause you created a property I am much interested in contributing and seem very active here: government_positions_held - how is one supposed to handle the aspect of time? Assumed we want to store a bit of history; what position had this person in the past? Shall there be two linked properties (start/end) to this one - or is freebase structured the way, that former values of this property are stored can be accessed same way?

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 11, 2011
              jeff says:

              Date information is stored in the properties /government/government_position_held/from and /government/government_position_held/to. There is a bit more information about entering government position data on the Freebase wiki. Note that that property you mention expects what is called a "compound value type" which is used to connect multiple topics and data about a single relationship (in this case, the relationship between an elected official and their position, plus dates, electoral district, and other information).

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        8.  

          Should an Ethnicity be allowed to co-type with Field of Study?

          also posted to
          • Education
          4 posts, latest post: thadguidry, Jul 5, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            thadguidry Freebase Experts
            Jun 25, 2011
            thadguidry says:

            I personally do not think Field of Study should be allowed to co-type with Ethnicity. Field of Study, to me, would be the "studies of the_ethnicity". Such as "African American studies" versus "African American". I think we should remove the conflation and split off these topics: http://www.freebase.com/view/user/thadguidry/default_domain/views/ethnicity_can_be_a_field_of_study

            Opinions ?

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 29, 2011
              jeff says:

              I think you're right. More broadly speaking, however, I suspect that the real problem is that the four topics currently in your saved view are somewhat dubiously typed.

              • French Language is not an ethnicity, but it can be a field of study. The "french ethnicity" info needs to be split to French people.
              • English (e.g. "English people") is not a field of study but is an ethnicity; due to the ambiguity of the name, the field of study data presumably should be split to English Literature. I renamed the topic to "English people" to reduce the number of English majors who select the first "English" that appears before they remember that they really majored in English lit. (I can make fun of people who do this because, somewhere, deep in the depths of the graph, you can find the historical assertion that I majored in the English language, for similar reasons.)
              • Judaism is a religion (and therefore a legitimate field of study); the ethnicity data should be split to Jewish people.
              • Sephardic Judaism is arguably not even a religion (although I'm not entirely sure what type it should have); there is a separate topic for the ethnicity, Sephardi Jews
              1.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Jun 29, 2011
                thadguidry says:

                Agreed Jeff on all. I came to the exact same conclusions. Thanks for affirming. When I get some time, I'll work on the above splits. At least we have it documented now, thanks to you and I ! ;)

              2.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Jul 5, 2011
                thadguidry says:

                Done !

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        9.  

          Translation date should be unique

          also posted to
          • Media,
          • Translated Work
          1 post, latest post: tfmorris, Jun 4, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Jun 4, 2011
            tfmorris says:

            The translated date property on Translation should be unique. It's not currently.

          Discussion is posted in:

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          • close Translated Work
          • close jeff

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        10.  

          Would you like to participate in my research survey about “user preferences in open communities”?

          1 post, latest post: antyaw, May 19, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            antyaw
            May 19, 2011
            antyaw says:

            Hi Jeff,

            My name is Antya Widita. I am a researcher on open content communities from the Technical University of Hamburg, Germany.

            I would kindly like to ask you, if you could support our research about “how community characteristics influence user participation” by filling out our short survey. It takes only 7 - 10 minutes to complete.

            The link is: http://cgi.tu-harburg.de/~soaw2010/limesurvey/index.php?sid=16186&lang=en

            I can also distribute the result to you if you’re interested and happy to receive any feedback that you might have.

            Thank you very much in advance, understanding your experience and views are very important for us.

            Best regards, Antya

          Discussion is posted in:

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        11.  

          Aren't these not the same?

          also posted to
          • /m/0gb54w9,
          • tfmorris
          3 posts, latest post: gmackenz, Feb 12, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
            Feb 11, 2011
            gmackenz says:

            Common Minke Whale and the Antarctic Minke Whale (and possibly a 3rd group in the Sea of Japan) are all members of a 'clade' that comprise the species Minke Whale. Are we missing a sub-classification of Clade or is it not a fully agreed upon classification instance? Biological classification certainly not my area of expertise.

            1.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Feb 11, 2011
              tfmorris says:

              Oops, you're right these shouldn't be merged. I was going by the matching scientific names (and the fact that the genus article said that it contained 8 species and we had 11).

              I'll rejigger the structured data to match the article, by removing the scientific name and level (species) for Minke Whale and making the two species subclassifications of it.

            2.  
              gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
              Feb 12, 2011
              gmackenz says:

              Cool, my Biological Classification health meter has just risen by a level.

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        12.  

          It's a guess, but a good one

          also posted to
          • /m/0g98m7d,
          • thadguidry,
          • Port of Call
          5 posts, latest post: thadguidry, Feb 3, 2011
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Jan 30, 2011
            tfmorris says:

            I can't tell where the Port of Call is supposed to be, but it seems unlikely that there are two ports with names this similar.

            1.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Jan 31, 2011
              thadguidry says:

              I thought you and Jeff agreed that the operational entity (the Port of Call) would and should be different than the supporting city/town/village ? To me they need to be 2 different topics with 2 different types to encapsulate additional metadata and structure and statistics for the Port of Call vs. the sometimes containing city. Just like /airport/serves . It's common for a Port of Call to have a similar sounding name like it's supporting city.

              If you see any city/town/villages that are also a port of call, then that's probably NOT correct and the topics ideally need to be split as we had already agreed. I think the very first uploads that I had with Ports of Call and was with the nasty import tool that didn't really allow me to inspect each one easily, so we (I) may have to run back through each Port of Call and split it from the City topic.

              I have now added the City_Served property to the Port of Call type that should now help to avoid the confusion.

              Anything else ?

            2.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Jan 31, 2011
              thadguidry says:

              Forgot to also mention that the UN/Locode is unique for Ports of Call also. From UN document - "UN/LOCODE is intended to cover ports, airports, inland clearance depots and freight terminals and other locations, as defined above, for purposes of international trade data interchange."

            3.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Feb 1, 2011
              tfmorris says:

              Ah, OK. Sorry about about that. The new property should help make things clearer. Would it make sense to have the default name for these things to be "Port of "? I think that's the general convention in English. The plain city name could be kept as an alias.

              It'd be nice to include more location information too. Is anything available in the database that you loaded these from? In this case, I think we could say that the port is contained by the city and that would probably be generally true, but there are likely some outliers where the port is a ways from the modern city.

              1.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Feb 3, 2011
                thadguidry says:

                Tom,

                So out of about 4000+ Port of Call's that I will upload shortly, there are about 200 that would have a convention name of "Port of Port Hope Simpson" or something like that. I almost do not want to load those 200 that already have the use of Port already in the name as a Type signal. Then again, there are those Cities themselves that began a history as a Port of Call such as "Portland" or "Elizabethport" What do you think we should do overall here ? Should I drop the "Port of" + value for those 200 where they already would have a name match beginning with "Port ..." ? ie resulting in "Port of Port..."

                Also when Port of Calls are constructed they are sometimes considered Projects within a municipality with budgeting, yada yada yada...and the names used there are usually something like "Toronto Port Expansion 2006' or "Elizabethport Port Project".

                Let me know.

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        13.  

          Request to review law/legal schema and promote to Commons

          also posted to
          • Creating Schemas,
          • Advanced,
          • Law,
          • legal,
          • Law,
          • francisdavey
          20 posts, latest post: jeff, Nov 12, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            faye Metaweb Current Staff
            Sep 24, 2009
            faye says:

            Hi, the Law commons is regrettably lacking. There are multiple Law and Legal user bases in existence, such as:

            http://www.freebase.com/view/user/skud/legal http://www.freebase.com/view/user/tsegaran/legal

            May I request a schema review for the purpose of promoting some of these types to Commons? We can use types such as Judge and Legal case and Court Ruling.

            1.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Nov 18, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              +1, the Law commons needs some work

            2.  
              francisdavey
              Sep 4, 2010
              francisdavey says:

              I agree. Skud's schema seems pretty good as a starting point, though it would be great to see things like "affirmed_by", "followed_by", "overruled_by" and so on. It would also be useful to see:

              • ways of linking decisions to jurisdiction (maybe you can do this via Court though I'm not entirely sure)
              • something more flexible concerning parties (per my comments on Skud's "Legal Case" schema)
              • perhaps more generality for disposition (since you don't find in favour of a party).

              The Judge schema doesn't really work for my jurisdiction since judges aren't appointed to courts, a judge will have a particular status (district judge, circuit judge, high court judge etc) and may then sit in multiple courts (the rule for circuit judges). I don't think its useful to record a relationship like "may sit in" for judge/court since that gives a potentially huge plurality of options, but I'm not sure you need "has sat in" since you can do that via the Legal Case type (maybe?).

              I'd be interested to know where the right place to discuss this might be and really new to the project so not sure what to do that doesn't mess up the existing schema. I'm kind of interested in entering information about cases that interest me (as a copyright lawyer).

              1.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Sep 10, 2010
                jeff says:

                Phooey. My long, thoughful reply has just been eaten by my browser! I'll try again to post my responses to specific issues here, and hopefully I'll be able to remember what I was thinking the first time!

                1. I assume that properties like "affirmed_by" would be used to connect court cases together? I think that sounds like an excellent idea. Would you care to propose a full list, possibly with some description (I'm not quite sure what "followed by" means, for example)

                2. I think decisions can be linked to jurisdictions via the court itself (since the court has a jurisdiction), unless there are instances where the jurisdiction of the court and the jurisdiction affected by the decision are different?

                3. I think your suggestions about making the parties/litigants more flexible makes sense.

                4. Any suggestions you have on how to handle dispositions would be more than welcome (I don't have any ideas on how to do this off-hand)

                5. For the Judicial Tenure model, what if we added another property for judicial role or title, so that we could use the same schema to show US-style courts, where judges are generally appointed or elected to a specific court, as well as UK-style courts, where judges have positions which determine what kind of courts they can sit on but don't specifically sit on one court?

              2.  
                francisdavey
                Sep 11, 2010
                francisdavey says:

                I'm having a start to play around with the ideas on my own base (lawbase) but I'm still rather a novice so I'm not sure I'm getting it right. It may be a little while before I get anywhere, I'm afraid.

                1. There's a standard idea (at least in English and Commonwealth law) that there are these binary relationships between cases, as follows:

                2. "followed by" is one of several terms used by legal taxonomies to indicate relationships between cases. It means that a court that is bound by the annotated decision on a case in which the material facts are the same (or substantially so) applies the principles of the previous case. There are a bunch of others - all of which are of interest to lawyers and I suspect to other people - so this is something to develop.

                3. the best way is for me to enter up a list of such relationships as part of the type, how do I do that? Do I do one property for each thing or something else? I would probably start with:

                4. approved / disapproved

                5. [not] applied
                6. [not] followed
                7. doubted
                8. overruled [in part]
                9. considered
                10. distinguished
                11. referred to
                12. cited (where counsel have cited it, but there is no real reference to the case cited in the decision)
                13. explained
                14. mentioned

                15. I think that's a good starting point. There are some weird situations but mostly they will follow your rule. Eg, the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom has jurisdiction to hear civil appeals from Scotland and England, but its decisions on Scottish cases may be treated as having precedent in England (for example Donaghue v Stevenson was a very influential case albeit Scots, there are others). Mostly courts in legal systems with precedent follow superior courts' decisions.

                How we do the jurisdiction of a court is another problem? I am concerned about complexity here.

                There are both subject matter and geographical limitations. Appellate courts get more complicated still.

                Geographical jurisdiction is conceptually simple, but in the UK (and I suspect everywhere) the lowest courts will often have ad hoc geographical areas which do not coincide with any other geographical unit, so would not warrant a topic, since their sole existence is for the jurisdiction of that court. Eg, a topic on the geographical area of Brentford County Court would have little interest. But maybe a topic on the 12th circuit in the US would. I don't know.

                Subject matter could get very complicated. Many first instance courts at the lowest level may only hear cases of certain kinds limited in various complicated ways (eg by sums of money). Do we want to record all that and how?

                1. Yes. I think Role => litigant is the better way to present this to a reader rather than litigant => role which is what I have at the moment. I assume I have to change the schema to change that.

                2. Hmmmm, for appeals I guess "allowed", "allowed in part", "refused/declined" and similarly for permission to appeal. For first instance I really don't know. Eg, if a court decides that two parties have a 70:30 share in a property, its hard to describe that as in favour or against someone. So for pass/fail type cases its relatively easy to categorise, not so with ones where the court is exercising a general discretion. Could be complicated.

                3. A better solution is to have a relationship of "appointed to court x from a to b" for situations where that is meaningful. The "Judge" type would then not have to have any judicial tenure relations, but might have a title like "circuit judge" (i.e. a judicial role). I worry about denormalisation here though since in some cases role => court appointment and vice versa.

                What does anyone think.

                Eg, an English Circuit Judge is not meaningfully appointed to a particular court, but could be nominated to sit in a specialist court of the High Court or on the Employment Appeal Tribunal or elsewhere. Equally a US Supreme Court Judge (another role) sits only on the Supreme Court.

            3.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Sep 4, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              Welcome to Freebase! Here's as good a place as any to discuss this since it's right in the context that you're talking about, but if you want a wider audience there's the freebase-discuss mailing list.

              Domain expertise is very welcome. A lot of these schemas have been put together by people with an interest in the domain, but not any professional experience.

              There are a few ways you could proceed:

              1. Experiment with loading data into one of the existing domains. Even though we refer to them as Skud's or Toby's, they're all available for anyone to use.

              2. If you are comfortable with modeling, clone the schema that you think is closest to what you need and start modifying it and entering your data.

              3. Start a domain/schema of your own from scratch

              During the initial stages, you might want to do your modeling and data entry on the sandbox (www.sandbox-freebase.com) which gets refreshed every week automatically wiping out any mistakes without effort on your part. The downside is that any work that you want to keep needs to be replicated on the production server, so you want to balance risk vs effort.

              From your comment about the Crown, it sounds like you're in either Britain or a British colony. If you're familiar with differences between the jurisdictions that you work in and other legal systems, it might be useful to point them out as you go to help people fill in the holes and generalize things for other parts of the world.

              Thanks for offering to contribute! Let us know if you need any help.

            4.  
              francisdavey
              Sep 4, 2010
              francisdavey says:

              Hi, thanks. I'll have a play around and see what I can do.

              How does one start domains or schemas from scratch? There's nothing in the help documentation to tell you how exactly. Do I need to do it via the API (eg using a python library) or is there a way to do it from the website I haven't found?

              Although playing with it myself is fine, it would be nice to know that there were others to chew some of these questions over with. Also there's a few things that I don't know what their intention is, for example under "Law Case" there is a property "Citations" - does that mean ways of citing reports of the case, or other cases which cite the case (actually maybe its obvious that the former is meant).

              I am interested in trying to make things not too jurisdiction specific. I would be interested to know what other people think about my problem with "Judge" being assigned to a court. How does one fix that?

            5.  
              francisdavey
              Sep 4, 2010
              francisdavey says:

              PS: Where would one propose a way of tidying up the various case law types?

            6.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 10, 2010
              jeff says:

              I'd like to see this base (or law base) get promoted, so thanks for all your thoughtful comments! I know you (francisdavey) have started working on a base for law, so maybe we can coordinate efforts somehow. I'll toss in more comments and responses in the various discussions, and hopefully we'll be able to converge on a schema.

              1.  
                francisdavey
                Sep 22, 2010
                francisdavey says:

                Hi. I like what you are doing/saying. I am sorry I haven't responded for a long time. This is partly pressure of work. But also I don't seem to get notified about your comments. I've only just had a notification of your comment about appellant roles.

                If I hadn't been so busy I'd have tried to flesh my base out so it would be obvious what I was after, but I'm really still a bit inexperienced at things like CVT's to get it right.

            7.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 14, 2010
              jeff says:

              Here's an example of what I was thinking for the Judicial Tenure model: http://www.freebase.com/topic/edit/en/brenda_hale_baroness_hale_of_richmond#/user/skud/legal/judge. Judges can have roles (e.g. High Court Judge), courts (Supreme Court of the United Kingdom), or both.

              1.  
                francisdavey
                Sep 22, 2010
                francisdavey says:

                Hmmmmm, at first I thought I liked it, but now I take a different view. I hope you don't think I am being overly critical or pedantic, but here's how I see it:

                Judges will generally have a status - what kind of judge they are, eg "High Court Judge", "Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States" and so on.

                Judges will also have one or more roles, eg "Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court", "Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales", "President of the London Rent Assessment Panel" (to give a more prosaic example).

                Almost everywhere, status will determine the kinds of role that may be adopted and the kinds of act that the judge may carry out in that role. Certainly here there are things a High Court Judge may do that a Circuit Judge may not.

                Keeping these ideas separate is important to deal cleanly with situations where a judge whose status would normally permit them to sit in one court, is appointed to sit in another. In England the Master of the Rolls is often (but not always) a judge of the more senior court (House of Lords/Supreme Court). So for example Lord Neuberger sat in the House of Lords and Supreme Court for a while before becoming the MR. He now sits in the Court of Appeal. That's not a demotion. His status is still a Supreme Court Judge but his role is MR.

                I think this operates in the US too, which is why I think we should adopt it. For example after retirement Supreme Court judges sometimes sit (I can't remember the section and terminology for this but I can look it up) in one of the circuits as an additional judge. What you want to record is their status either is the same (SCJ) or has become (SCJ - retired) but that they have been appointed to a circuit. In fact this is an example from the US where appointment (role) and status are different.

                Does that make sense?

              2.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Sep 23, 2010
                jeff says:

                I think that does make sense; I'll try out a new model soon. And don't worry about being overly pedantic -- pedantry is held in pretty high esteem here-abouts, and I don't think you're being overly critical, either. I'm most concerned with getting a working model, so criticism (pedantic or otherwise) is more than welcome.

              3.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Sep 23, 2010
                jeff says:

                I do have a question here, actually. Do you suggest that Judicial Role, Judicial Status, and Court should all be properties of the same CVT (i.e., just add a new property for Judicial Status to the existing Judicial Tenure type), or should we be modeling these things separately?

              4.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Nov 12, 2010
                jeff says:

                Coming back to this, I'm starting to think that splitting role and status is going to be pretty confusing, especially since a lot of what we seem to be discussing are essentially titles. E.g., "Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the US" is a title, as are "President of the London Rent Assessment Panel" and "Master of the Rolls". Titles may or may not be associated with particular courts. This echoes the schema for legislatures and for heads of religious groups.

                Here's Lord Neuberger's CV under this proposal.

            8.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 14, 2010
              jeff says:

              I do think that geographical area for a court's jurisdiction is of some value, although it sounds like it should maybe be its own type, rather than using the existing Governmental Jurisdiction. The UK's "courts board areas", for example, are named and quite well-defined. It would also facilitate the loading of shapefiles for such things, if someone wanted to.

              1.  
                francisdavey
                Sep 22, 2010
                francisdavey says:

                I agree. If a court has a well defined geographical area of jurisdiction, that is useful. I don't think "Courts board areas" are jurisdictional (iirc its local justice areas that are), but you may know more than I do. I don't practice in criminal courts now.

                I'd be impressed/amazed if anyone managed to get a shapefile of county court areas though, and maybe that would be an encouragement.

                I think having a separate type is also a good idea. The problem I had was whether all these areas were worth being their own topic, eg "local justice area" deserves being a topic, but does each one? You may be able to advise on that.

              2.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Sep 23, 2010
                jeff says:

                "Deserves" isn't something we worry too much about in Freebase; if something exists, it can have a topic. I don't see any problem with individual local justice areas, or courts board areas, having their own topics. (I think courts board areas have superseded local justice areas, but I could be getting them mixed up.) At any rate, I'll create a separate type for court jurisdictions.

            9.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 17, 2010
              jeff says:

              Here's a stab at a single-property model for the parties to a case: Legal case/party relationship. Note that, for convenience, I've just tacked this onto the existing Litigant and Legal Case types, so both the single and multiple-property models are showing. I've fleshed out an example here: McLibel case. I think this actually works pretty well. Note that I've grouped the plaintiffs and defendants together (into two CVT objects total, instead of four -- one for each party), which I think shows the relationships well. Any thoughts?

            10.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 21, 2010
              jeff says:

              Here's another example (with an appellant role): Dolan v. United States Postal Service. I'm starting to really favor this model over the two property plaintiff/defendant model.

              I also suggest deleting the "found in favor of" property, and tabling the model for now, in order to move this process along; this seems like too much of a simplification of the complexities of legal cases. I think it's an issue that could be continued to be worked out in a base, and later added to the (presumed) commons legal case type.

              Any thoughts?

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close Creating Schemas
          • close Advanced
          • close Law
          • close legal
          • close Law
          • close jeff
          • close francisdavey

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        14.  

          lots

          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Oct 16, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Oct 15, 2010
            spencermountain says:

            hey, did all the things you suggested for infrastructure.

            some of the things, like slaughterhouse, or infrastructural municipality, aren't that confident, and I don't know how valid they are for promotion

            some of my faves for promotion are:

            http://www.freebase.com/view/user/skud/nuclear_weapons

            http://www.freebase.com/view/user/narphorium/people/wealthy_person

            http://www.freebase.com/view/base/disaster2/death_causing_event

            http://www.freebase.com/view/user/danny/materials_science

            http://hotels.freebase.com/

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Oct 16, 2010
              jeff says:

              Thanks for this list! I'll check them out for the next round.

              Slaughterhouse I agree isn't ready for prime time. "Infrastructural municipality" is not the most sonorous type name ever (although it's better than some I've created!), but unless we just went for /location/location and therefore didn't reciprocate the properties, I think a specific type is needed. I'll see if I can think of a better name.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        15.  

          Jeff, ya know this guy ?

          also posted to
          • The Best Australian Science Fiction
          2 posts, latest post: typelibrarian, Oct 12, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            thadguidry Freebase Experts
            Oct 12, 2010
            thadguidry says:

            Curious....

            1.  
              typelibrarian Metaweb Current Staff
              Oct 12, 2010
              typelibrarian says:

              Can't say as I do.

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close The Best Australian Science Fiction
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        16.  

          NGA Number not machine readable ?

          also posted to
          • Lighthouse,
          • robert
          17 posts, latest post: thadguidry, Oct 6, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            thadguidry Freebase Experts
            Aug 10, 2010
            thadguidry says:

            Why is the NGA number an integer rather than machine readable ?

            1.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Aug 14, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              If we're sure it's always a number and always going to be a number, an integer instead of a string seems fine. What issue do you see (or forecast)?

            2.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Aug 14, 2010
              thadguidry says:

              Wait... is NGA not stand for National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency ? or is this some other kind of identifying number ?

              The reason I brought it up is that I have seen some NGA numbers before and they appeared in this format "110-18360"

              An Example: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Focinho_do_Cabo_Lighthouse

            3.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Aug 14, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              I feel like I'm playing twenty questions.

              So your point is that because it's a structured number containing a hyphen (which Freebase sometimes drops for cases like this, btw), it should be a machine readable string instead of an integer.

              Since you've researched this and the rest of us (or at least I) haven't, can you provide a pointer to the spec for the format of the identifier?

              Changing this to a machine readable string is easy from a data migration point of view, but nominally a breaking change for applications if they are depending on the fact that it's an integer, so it would need to be advertised ahead of time.

            4.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Aug 15, 2010
              thadguidry says:

              I have NO IDEA what NGA number stands for, Tom. So...I did some more digging.

              NGA is in fact the National Geospatial-intelligence Agency in this case it appears. With the November 24, 2003 signing of the Fiscal Year 2004 Defense Authorization Act, the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA) officially became the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). So they were previously NIMA. Ok, finally I'm getting somewhere.

              Now, apparently, they produce the List of Lights publications. LLPUB110, List of Lights - NGA Maritime 02010

              Apparently, this map here shows what those prefixes really mean, that I saw around the Internet... like 110- which means the number is found in publication 110 for those lighthouses in Mexico / South America. Ah ok, didn't know that. And looking at the 110 publication linked above, it appears that they have started to use decimals in areas where they have run out of 5 digit integer patterns.

              Mexico 15636.4 Height 59 ft , Round concrete tower; 52 ft.

              And this Screenshot of the query against their database shows the same use of

              (pant pant pant - I'm out of breath just in the last 2 hours researching and typing this !) Hopefully the above will help you make a good decision either way.

            5.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Aug 15, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              Thanks Thad. To summarize, the NGA has publications #110-116 which are light lists for different geographic regions. The official light lists have the lights serially numbered starting at #1, so they overlap, but by convention the publication number is used as a prefix when referring to a light. Decimal numbers are used to insert lights at the appropriate point in the list when there's no room available in the numbering sequence.

              The decimal numbers are reason enough to switch to a machine readable string, so you're right, this needs to be changed. I guess the remaining question is whether there's any value to treating pub number + light number as two separate properties or to just stick with the convention of concatenating them together.

              Note that the NGA list only includes non-U.S. lights (with a few exceptions). The U.S. list is maintained separately by the USCG, but it's not clear to me whether or not their assigned numbers are stable. There also appears to an international number registry which assigns numbers of the form Z99999.99 where the alpha prefix is a geographic zone, but I don't know what agency maintains the registry.

              Having said all that, Robert is the only domain admin here and I'm not sure how active he is these days. We may need Jeff or Kirrily to help with assigning a backup domain admin.

            6.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Aug 15, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              copying Jeff & Robert -- not sure if it helps any with notifications though...

            7.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Aug 16, 2010
              jeff says:

              It does help with notifications! I don't know if Robert's still interested in maintaining this base or not. As Tom says, changing the expected type is doable, though not completely trivial. The data appears to have been scraped from WP infoboxes, which do not include the "list of lights" volume prefix. I'd say that we pretty much need the publication prefix if we want to use these as keys (which would be better than machine readable string, as long as we're changing the data type anyway), but we actually have no way to convert the current prefix-less numbers to prefixed ones, so that's kind of a problem.

              The NGA's data set includes a correspondence to what are probably the British Admiralty numbers (I think this is Tom's agency with the Z99999.99 format), which are also in the WP infobox. The infoboxes also have an id for the Amateur Radio Lighthouse Society's list.

              1.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Oct 4, 2010
                thadguidry says:

                Well, in order for me to help clean it all up, which I intend to, I first need someone to change it from Integer to Machine Readable. I plan to get the prefixes and numbers loaded into that and then I will inform you here when that cleanup is done for you to begin working on the keys, if we want to do that.

                I'm also almost done with the cross-reference of International numbers such as Admiralty vs. NGA number.

                I'm on the fence however, concerning having a second property to hold the publication number, such as 110.

                Looking at just the query interface at the NGA, looks like they use a 2 filter query approach. One holding the publication number, and then the second query filter for the light number, such as 0008 (which by the way gets converted to simply 8 now, and their publications have since dropped preceding zero's, which I think we should do as well).

                So 110-0008 would become perhaps /authority/nga/listoflights/110-8 (list of lights)

                I think simply 110-8 because it's no longer a 4 digit suffix, but unlimited now in theory... in their newest 2010 edition of LLPUB116, we get all the way up to 116-18976.

                That would be /authority/nga/listoflights/116-18976

                Thoughts ?

              2.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Oct 4, 2010
                jeff says:

                I think /authority/us/gov/nga/listoflights/110-8 is the way to go. I'll get the namespace set up, and then we can change the property to expect an enumeration. (I'd rather set it up as keys at the outset, rather than having to change the expected type twice.) Changing the expected type will wipe out the existing NGA numbers (which lack the three-digit prefix anyway). Do you need them for your reconciliation? If so, I can create a new NGA property for the new keys, leaving the old one around for reconciliation purposes, and only deleting the old one once your load is complete.

            8.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Oct 4, 2010
              thadguidry says:

              Nope. Not needed. I have 2 reconcilable databases to use, via Google Refine. So wipe away, Jeff, and change the expected type. Let's start fresh. I have most of all the entities from NGA in both my sets, anyway.

            9.  
              typelibrarian Metaweb Current Staff
              Oct 4, 2010
              typelibrarian says:

              NGA is all set up.

              1.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Oct 4, 2010
                thadguidry says:

                Cool. Thanks Jeff. Give me a week or so. (having to line up things that are in flux with Google Refine, which is also in flux!)

              2.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Oct 5, 2010
                thadguidry says:

                Err... Jeff, Are we sure things are in the right place, and all setup yet ? I'm getting a MQL error and also don't see any instances of type /lighthouse being returned. It doesn't appear that you killed the entire user type (that's good I guess). But where's the new enumerated type or namespace ?

                Clicking on this: http://www.freebase.com/schema/domain/user/robert/lighthouse

                shows me instances, but then clicking on those 1261 instances returns 0. Also, MQL error using Query Editor http://tinyurl.com/32d3v9k says:

                code: "/api/status/error/mql/type" enumeration: "#9202a8c04000641f8000000018df5477" property: "nga_number" message: "Unique enumerated properties must enumerate unique namespaces" status: "200 OK"

            10.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Oct 6, 2010
              jeff says:

              Uh-oh. Lemme check on that.

            11.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Oct 6, 2010
              jeff says:

              Fixed! It was just what the error said, too. How nice!

              1.  
                thadguidry Freebase Experts
                Oct 6, 2010
                thadguidry says:

                Ah, Whew! Thanks! I'll get to work on it then. (Thad wipes the sweat from his brow)

          Discussion is posted in:

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        17.  

          Shouldn't citations be it's own type instead of a raw string

          also posted to
          • Court decision
          7 posts, latest post: gmackenz, Sep 10, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
            Sep 10, 2010
            gmackenz says:

            A CVT probably. Really a

            Citations cite a previous ruling right? My understanding of the legal systems is minimal, from lot's of legal drama tv shows really ;)

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=404772

            For USA:

            Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973)

            Do Citation would be a CVT like below would contain properties that would link to other types or data properties:

            (Roe v. Wade)+ (410 U.S.) +(113)+ (1973)

            (Court case: link to that type if it exists) + (Law Report: link to a type named something like Law Report with included type of Written Work [or should it be Literary Series? Book Edition?]...Guessing Series or Work... ) + (Page number: what ever we use for page numbers in book edition? Integer?) + (Year: which would be linked to Date/Time)

            For England/Wales:

            Style of cause (year of decision), [year of report] volume report (series) page jurisdiction/court Donoghue v Stevenson, [1932] A.C. 562 (H.L.).

            (Style of cause/Court case: type of same name)+(Year of dec.: date/time)+(Year of report: date/time)+(Vol: raw string or text)+(Law Report: type of Law Report)+(Page #: integer)+(Jurisdiction: Court type)

            I think this should be modeled out first on the sandbox-freebase.com site for Lawbase till you find the best model. There should probably be a property for the legal system (eg. US Legal System, English Law, etc.) .You may have to make it either contain all properties/types necessary for USA/UK/and other notable Legal systems that are similar or make a unique CVT type for each distinctly different legal system court decision.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 10, 2010
              jeff says:

              I disagree; I think citations should be strings; they're virtually identifiers in themselves. Getting them in in standard format will be pretty simple. Expanding that format into various separate entities will be rather harder, and many of those data would already be handled on the court case type (such as court case itself and year). Different authorities (e.g. Westlaw) have slightly different styles, as well as variations in citation style for different courts, not to mention the extraordinarily large number of jurisdictions (which are not just national), which would require an extremely large number of different CVT models to capture this data.

            2.  
              gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 10, 2010
              gmackenz says:

              Oh well, thought I'd be clever, too clever it turns out.

            3.  
              francisdavey
              Sep 10, 2010
              francisdavey says:

              Thanks for your comments. You are probably right that I should do this on the sandbox, but since I barely know how to use freebase anyway, and someone made this base for me (which I thought I could just play with till I was happy) I haven't tried sandbox. Its confusing enough working here. Also I understand that all my work is wiped each Monday on sandbox, which would make it harder to do things until I've worked out how to script things and then I can rebuild what I had already.

              I can't work on this full-time so this has to be done fairly slowly. I'd love to work somewhere where I could happily develop something and then see what others thought of it. Sandbox sounded too shifting sands for that 8-).

              I'm also still getting my head around terminology and the way CVT's work, so bear with me.

              In answer to your question - no, citations do not cite a previous ruling, they are the ways in which this ruling is cited. I'm aiming to add a property indicated any references to previous rulings. The citations property that is there at the moment is for the ways in which this case is cited.

              However, I think you are right that a type is needed for citations. Citations aren't unique and there's not always a canonical citation for any decision. So each court decision would have a number of citations. Is that something one would use a CVT for? One doesn't want a topic for each citation, surely? I may be getting muddled with terminology again.

              Citations have a number of different structures - as you have pointed out - so one (type?) should exist for each form of citation and have the structure you suggest. Does that sound right? Most "English" citations will take the form (with a few variations) ditto, US cases have a nice system, as do those in other jurisdictions and I can put together a collection of such things if that sounds the right thing to do.

              I appreciate any help or feedback, I really do. Its going to take a few weeks for me to get my head round the freebase system.

              1.  
                gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
                Sep 10, 2010
                gmackenz says:

                Yes, CVT's in one fashion represent a way to link together topics with some meaningful additional properties without creating a user-visible topic in it's own right.

            4.  
              francisdavey
              Sep 10, 2010
              francisdavey says:

              Ok. So that idea can be put on hold for a while then I guess, though there's probably a reasonably unified "commonwealth" system.

            5.  
              gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 10, 2010
              gmackenz says:

              Hey, feel free to model here , where it won't get wiped away. When i get a brainstorm of an idea that is kind of complicated, I often model it out on Sandbox if it's a type/base/commons that is critical/well-used by external sources. But I only do it if i intend to reproduce on Freebase proper almost immediately or I'll make a copious notes, screenshots, learn MQL enough to export the schema off site. etc.

              We really appreciate your interest in a somewhat neglected area of Freebase!

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close Court decision
          • close jeff

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        18.  

          opencyc authority

          3 posts, latest post: spencermountain, Aug 27, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Aug 22, 2010
            spencermountain says:

            hey jeff, is it posssible to add opencyc as an authority? i'd like to move the connections from http://www.freebase.com/view/en/opencyc/-/base/ontologies/ontology/equivalent_instances its a great database for us to connect to.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Aug 26, 2010
              jeff says:

              Yes, that would definitely be a good database to connect to. I'll see about getting the namespace created, but before you start moving the connections over, do you know how they've been generated? Jamie tells me that there's been some problems with their Wikipedia reconciliation historically.

            2.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Aug 27, 2010
              spencermountain says:

              I'm trying to find the link where I scold dbpedia over the accuracy of its opencyc links. Thats why I wanted to import them into freebase, to fix em. no rush on this one, my internet is down and I'm finally reading Godel Escher Bach. thanks jeff

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close jeff

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        19.  

          Adding location types for Ukraine

          also posted to
          • Location
          5 posts, latest post: jeff, Jul 29, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            maxim75
            Jul 28, 2010
            maxim75 says:

            Can we add location types for "Ukraine oblast" and "Ukraine raion". For example "Kiev-Sviatoshyn_Raion" which is a part of "Kiev oblast"

            1.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 28, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              Are there specific properties associated with those types which are unique to the Ukraine? Have you looked at Administrative Division to see if it will work for what you want to do?

              1.  
                maxim75
                Jul 29, 2010
                maxim75 says:

                Yes. In Ukraine each administrative division (oblast, raion, city, town, village) has unique KOATUU code and it's used in Wikipedia infoboxes for describing these locations. Russia uses similar code called OKATO.

                Each raion also has uniqie phone code prefix (e.g. +380 45 98) Oblast has one or more motor vehicle licence plate prefix and phone code prefix (+380 31)

                KOATUU page in Russian Wikipedia (Enlish version is not available): http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%9E%D0%90%D0%A2%D0%A3%D0%A3

            2.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Jul 29, 2010
              skud says:

              Looks like it might be worth making a type for that, yeah. Jeff, thoughts?

            3.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 29, 2010
              jeff says:

              Done! Ukraine Oblast, Ukraine Raion, Ukraine Autonomous Republic. (I created the last one for Crimea, since it really isn't a oblast.)

          Discussion is posted in:

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        20.  

          Sites not protected by a Natural or Cultural Site Designation

          also posted to
          • Protected Places
          14 posts, latest post: typelibrarian, Jul 29, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            pmackay Freebase Experts
            Jul 25, 2010
            pmackay says:

            Hi,

            How can this schema account for sites that are protected by an organisation but are not classified by any form of Natural or Cultural Site Designation? I'm thinking of organisations that simply buy or obtain land or property and protect it, but that land/property is not designated with anything, or at least not by that organisation.

            thanks

            paul

            1.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 26, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              Can you give an example of the kind of thing you're thinking of? Around here, a farmer, for example, could relinquish development rights for his land in return for a tax break. Is it something like that you're thinking of? The problem with land "protected" by a private organization is that if it's got no official standing, the organization can just sell it again if circumstances change.

            2.  
              pmackay Freebase Experts
              Jul 26, 2010
              pmackay says:

              A couple of organisations I was looking at is the Woodland Trust and National Trust in the UK. Both buy or are given stuff (woodlands and general land and places respectively) but although some of those sites may also have an official Designation of protection, not all do. As you say, their ability to protect those places is probably based on them having money to maintain them and keep their organisation running, but its still important information (I think) to capture those sites and who looks after them don't you think?

            3.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 26, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              The National Trust's annual report says "Our promise of conservation is uniquely‘for ever’. We own most of this glorious heritage inalienably. It can never be sold or developed against the Trust’s wishes without the express consent of Parliament." That seems like "National Trust property" or something similar could qualify as a Natural or Cultural Designation. I don't think there's anything that says it has to be a governmentally granted status.

            4.  
              pmackay Freebase Experts
              Jul 26, 2010
              pmackay says:

              OK I've just noticed a different type in the schema, wouldn't things like those organisations be listed as a Governing Body of Protected Sites? That has a direct link to a list of sites, rather than the inter-mediating Natural or Cultural Site Designation.

            5.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 26, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              Well spotted. I think Protected Site is the right thing to use.

            6.  
              pmackay Freebase Experts
              Jul 27, 2010
              pmackay says:

              Initially I read the description of Governing Body of Protected Sites which seemed fine to fit with my initial question. But the definition of Protected Site seems a bit stricter? At least it says:

              "A "protected site" is any location that is protected under law" "usually under the control (at least in part) by some form of government agency."

              Could an NGO also be added, as well as govt agency?

            7.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 27, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              Hmm, I think we'll probably need to get Jeff and others to weigh in. It seems reasonable to me to use this type, but not sure what others think. Either way the description should get updated to either explicitly include or exclude this case.

            8.  
              spatialed Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 27, 2010
              spatialed says:

              I'm a little confused as to what you are trying to model. Is it publicly owned places or is it "protected" places (which is an ambiguous word) or is it some combination or something else? For example, US National Forests are actively managed and US National Parks are not but both are "protected". There are government programs (e.g., US Farm Bill) that "protect" areas via subsidies for limited amounts of time, where protection is defined in terms of a list of acceptable activities (e.g., planting native grasses, not harvesting timber) that may change every couple years. Sometimes governments or NGOs will purchase timber rights but not mineral rights and vice versa.

              My interpretation of the current schema descriptions are that they focus on public lands. It would be nice if they were broader than that. Y'all might want to take a look at how other people are defining these data. For example, the California Protected Areas Database(not for commercial use) includes NGO holdings. TheUS Protected Area Database design looks to model easements separately. Both of these projects focus on "fee-owned lands".

              However, check out this backup-holder technique in Massachusetts. Looks like pretty permanent protection.

              1.  
                pmackay Freebase Experts
                Jul 28, 2010
                pmackay says:

                Hi Ed,

                I think the intention here is that it is protected places, as opposed to public ones.

                Its a valid point about what is the level of protection is though, as Protected Site only has the IUCN category but I doubt all the National Trust properties would fall into one of those categories. Might it be worth to have a Protection category type that could contain a wider range of topics, and the IUCN topics are co-typed?

            9.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Jul 27, 2010
              thadguidry says:

              Just wondering what the consensus is for the quick bit of work I did yesterday on these Designations ? http://www.freebase.com/view/m/0cj5w33

              I wasn't sure if the 23rd Annual listing of "America's 11 Most Endangered Historic Places" is a good name. Perhaps the naming is too catchy? And should be renamed simply "Endangered Historic Place" ?? But I went with their own designation. Thoughts?

              Also, Listing Agency, Categories, and Sites properties do not contain a description. i would like to see some, as it would have helped me.

              Now back to the topic at hand, those Governing Bodies that protect sites... Guam Preservation Trust is one, I think. They acquire title to protected sites, http://guampreservationtrust.com/archives.php which are also listed with National Register of Historic Places, such as http://www.freebase.com/view/en/san_dionisio_church_ruins.

              How does one go about linking "Guam Preservation Trust" that acquires title to some of those sites within NRIS that they manage ? Are they simply the "owner" of the designated site ? hmm.. perhaps so, since they have the title ? (See the About Us page for Guam Preservation Trust's website)

            10.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 27, 2010
              jeff says:

              I think non-governmental protection ought to be sufficient.

              1.  
                pmackay Freebase Experts
                Jul 28, 2010
                pmackay says:

                Jeff,

                How can the description be updated then?

              2.  
                typelibrarian Metaweb Current Staff
                Jul 29, 2010
                typelibrarian says:

                I've added a new description, which I hope will be clearer.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        21.  

          Geographical Feature

          8 posts, latest post: pak21, Jul 22, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            davsantos
            Jul 21, 2010
            davsantos says:

            It seams that people have been inserting location names into Geographical Features. Shouldn't a geographical feature tell more about a geographical feature category. For example a Lava Cave is a Geographical feature for the Geographical Feature Category - Cave.

            1.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jul 21, 2010
              pak21 says:

              I think an example may help with this one: Fingal's Cave (a geographical feature) is an example of a sea cave (a geographical feature category). Sea cave is a subcategory of cave, also a geographical feature category. (Cave was until about a minute ago mistyped as a geographical feature).

              More generally: a geographical feature is a specific place you can go and visit. A geographical feature category is a type of geographical feature.

              Does that help?

            2.  
              davsantos
              Jul 21, 2010
              davsantos says:

              Yes it helped! I guess I wasn't the only one that made that mistake since I also found Lava Tube as a geographical feature. I though that the feature was meaning a characteristic of the Geographical category. I will remove the Lava Tube from the geographical feature.

            3.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jul 21, 2010
              pak21 says:

              Looking at it a bit more, I can see why you were confused! The description of the geographical feature type was wrong, and many things were mistyped. We've fixed the description, and I'm working on some of the more obvious mistypings, so hopefully things will be easier for the next person :-)

            4.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 22, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              I cleaned up 60 topics that were typed with both Geo Feature and Geo Feature Cat. Someone (Phil?) most have already started the work, because there were more like 140 in this set on the sandbox.

            5.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jul 22, 2010
              pak21 says:

              Yeah, that'll have been me :-) Thanks for doing the rest, Tom!

            6.  
              davsantos
              Jul 22, 2010
              davsantos says:

              One more thing about the Geographical feature category. There was a problem with the bay which was the horse bay instead of the real thing. So when the bay (horse ) was removed from being a Geographical feature category, all the geographical feature that were referenced as being bays lost there information. Could you use something like GridWorks to solve that? Just to avoid going one by one.

            7.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jul 22, 2010
              pak21 says:

              Not sure if Gridworks could do it, but there's a tool available to Experts which can, so I've done it. Thanks again for the pointer.

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        22.  

          Beach Type

          also posted to
          • zimoons,
          • skud,
          • spatialed
          3 posts, latest post: davsantos, Jul 22, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            davsantos
            Jul 22, 2010
            davsantos says:

            I would like to propose a beach type for the Physical Geography domain.

            1.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jul 22, 2010
              pak21 says:

              What properties would the type have?

              At the moment, this can be modelled by typing the topic as a geographical feature and setting the category to "beach" - in general, we try and avoid types with no properties as they don't add any real value.

            2.  
              davsantos
              Jul 22, 2010
              davsantos says:

              Yes. I created a Beach Type with the properties: shore length, beach berm length and nearshore bar length (Please check on MyTypes for the Beach type). Do you think these properties could have value since they are real facts? I also though about averages of air quality, water quality, water temperatures and weather. But these properties could be subjective so I didn't consider them yet. How do you think they could be implemented?

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        23.  

          Can't create a base

          also posted to
          • davsantos,
          • pak21
          1 post, latest post: davsantos, Jul 22, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            davsantos
            Jul 22, 2010
            davsantos says:

            In my profile page I find the tab: My Bases and My Types. On the separator My Types I can create as many Types as I want (although for some reason if I try deleting a Type I am forwarded to the home page and sometimes even logged out). But most important is I can't create any base.

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        24.  

          Uniquify properties on Airliner accident

          also posted to
          • Aviation incident
          15 posts, latest post: jeff, Jun 28, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Jan 25, 2010
            sprocketonline says:

            I suggest the following properties should be unique:

            • /aviation/airliner_accident/date
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/aircraft_type
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/tail_number
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/passengers
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/crew
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/survivors
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/fatalities
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_origin
            • /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_destination
            1.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jan 25, 2010
              pak21 says:

              What about a hypothetical accident involving a mid-air collision between two aircraft? A lot of these properties would then need to hold details of both aircraft.

            2.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jan 25, 2010
              sprocketonline says:

              True. But the way the schema is now it is then impossible to tell which plane type was operated by which company, and how many passengers and crew each plane carried.

              Would it be better to have a property/CVT for each aircraft involved in an accident? Or is that too big a change for this type?

            3.  
              ptomblin
              Jan 25, 2010
              ptomblin says:

              I think you need room for a "popular name" or something. Many accidents are known by a flight number or a location name - if you say "Tenerife" to me, the first thing I think of is the collision of two 747s at that location, if you say "SwissAir 111", I think of the fire and crash off Peggy's Cove Nova Scota.

            4.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jan 25, 2010
              pak21 says:

              Iain: Good point. A CVT makes sense to me.

              Paul: searching for "SwissAir 111" and "Tenerife crash" already produces the appropriate topics as the first hit. Even "Tenerife" gives the crash as the 4th match; looks to me like things are working well at the moment. We can always add aliases if we think they would be helpful.

            5.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jan 25, 2010
              jeff says:

              It looks like this type needs some refactoring. I'd recommend something like this:

              1. Move these properties to a CVT that will represent each aircraft involved:

              /aviation/airliner_accident/aircraft_type

              /aviation/airliner_accident/tail_number

              /aviation/airliner_accident/operator

              /aviation/airliner_accident/passengers

              /aviation/airliner_accident/crew

              /aviation/airliner_accident/survivors

              /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_origin

              /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_destination

              1. These properties should actually be pulled from the Disaster type:

              /aviation/airliner_accident/site

              /aviation/airliner_accident/fatalities

              /aviation/airliner_accident/injuries

              1. These properties should actually be pulled from the Event type:

              /aviation/airliner_accident/date

              1. These properties should expect Airport rather than Location:

              /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_origin

              /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_destination

              The definition might also better be expanded to "aircraft accident" rather than strictly airliner accident to allow the inclusion of topics like 1948 Gatow air disaster.

            6.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jan 25, 2010
              jeff says:

              Wow. That's hideous. Sorry about that. Let me try again:

              1). Move these properties to a CVT that will represent each aircraft involved:

              • /aviation/airliner_accident/aircraft_type
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/tail_number
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/operator
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/passengers
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/crew
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/survivors
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_origin
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_destination

              2). These properties should actually be pulled from the Disaster type:

              • /aviation/airliner_accident/site
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/fatalities
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/injuries

              3). These properties should actually be pulled from the Event type:

              • /aviation/airliner_accident/date

              4). These properties should expect Airport rather than Location:

              • /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_origin
              • /aviation/airliner_accident/flight_destination

              The definition might also better be expanded to "aircraft accident" rather than strictly airliner accident to allow the inclusion of topics like 1948 Gatow air disaster.

            7.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jan 26, 2010
              pak21 says:

              Looks good to me.

              A slight tangent as we're in the area: Pan Am Flight 103 wasn't an "accident" in any sense that I'd use the word. Do we want to rename this type?

            8.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jan 26, 2010
              sprocketonline says:

              @jeff, the proposal looks good. @pak21, I suggest "aviation incident" with aliases of "aviation accident", "aircraft accident" and "plane crash".

            9.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jan 28, 2010
              jeff says:

              I've started work on this (Aviation incident/aircraft relationship -- the link from Aviation Incident is currently hidden while the modeling is in progess), and have naturally come up with a few further questions.

              1. Should "survivors" be on the CVT (as I originally suggested), or should it just be a "total survivors" property on Aviation Incident itself?
              2. What should the expected type of "Flight Origin" and "Flight Destination" be? I wanted to change it to Airport from Location, but what if the flight originated at a helipad on a hospital or the like, or from an aircraft carrier? Neither Location nor Airport really seems to answer.

              Also, just to mention, I've made the expected type of "operator" be Aircraft Owner on the CVT, so that military and private owners can be correctly entered. I also made "tail number" expect a machine-readable string, rather than text, since the value should be language-independent.

              1.  
                sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
                Jan 29, 2010
                sprocketonline says:
                1. Both, is there any reason why we shouldn't? Having both allows detailed data to be added where we have it and the total anywhere else.

                2. The description from the airport type is "An airport is a facility where aircraft such as airplanes and helicopters can take off and land.". I think using the airport type for the "flight origin" and "flight destination" properties is suitable, although a lot of properties might be redundant. The co-typing with airport explains whether the linked topic is a location, hospital, oil rig, aircraft carrier etc..

              2.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Jan 29, 2010
                jeff says:

                Thanks, I think those solutions make sense. I'll update the type.

            10.  
              ptomblin
              Jan 28, 2010
              ptomblin says:

              Sometimes there are notable survivors who have their own biography somewhere else on the site. A CVT that contained links to them might make sense?

              1.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Jan 28, 2010
                jeff says:

                Yes. This property is on the Disaster type.

            11.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 28, 2010
              jeff says:

              Work has started on this task (DA-1058). We're running into a problem, though, which is that a lot of the flight destinations and flight origins are for cities, not airports. I've set up two To Do Lists for these incidents, if anyone would like to help clean them up:

              • Aviation Incidents where Destination is City/Town
              • Aviation incidents with Origins that are city/towns

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        25.  

          User page

          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Jun 28, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            carmenmfenn1 Top Contributor
            Jun 28, 2010
            carmenmfenn1 says:

            Jeff, please, my user page is down again, would you have a look ? Thank you

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 28, 2010
              jeff says:

              I'll drop a note to the client team.

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        26.  

          Improved(?) soccer schema

          also posted to
          • Soccer,
          • logiclabs,
          • joakim
          10 posts, latest post: sprocketonline, Jun 14, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Jun 29, 2009
            sprocketonline says:

            I noticed there weren't too many properties in the soccer commons, so I had a go at creating my own schema in the football assocation base.  I've emulated most of the types from the soccer commons; but my big addition is soccer match - which has properties for players, goal scorers, substitutions and bookings etc..  as an example I've filled in the FA Cup Final 1999

            I'd appreciate any comments on the schema, I've tried to pick up previous comments gathered from the soccer base discussion; but I'm open to any ideas for improvements...  (particularly competitions/leagues/seasons)

            1.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              skud says:

              Congratulations, you are now an admin of the Soccer Commons :)

            2.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              Thanks skud.

              As much as I'd like to go crazy with my new powers and move everything to the commons, I'll hold back as I'd like some critical review of the types I mashed together in the association football base earlier today.

            3.  
              typelibrarian Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 29, 2009
              typelibrarian says:

              Well, since you asked... :)   Bear in mind that I know exactly zilch about association football, other than which three English teams contain swear words in their names (which is what you learn when Billy Bragg is your main entree into the sport).

              I notice that there is no direct relationship between players and teams (only via squad or match), and that in the case of Manchester United, you've co-typed it as both a squad and a team, which seems confusing based on the type descriptions.

              Should soccer field include sports arena?

              For goals, I think the disambiguator "team" is ambiguous -- at a glance it's not clear whether that's the player's team or the team the goal is credited to.

              A soccer league does not seem to contain any teams.

              Why is a soccer league also a soccer competition?

              Soccer competition's property "seasons" expects "Event" rather than Soccer Soccer competion season.

              Speaking of soccer competition season, the "matches" property should probably be reciprocated on the Match type.

              But overall this is a very impressive schema!

            4.  
              logiclabs
              Jun 30, 2009
              logiclabs says:

              Maybe add attendance to the soccer match type?

              If possible, it'd be great if these types could inherit properly from the existing sports events/sports league championship events .. 

              i.e. a soccer match (is a) sports event (is an) event .. a soccer championship event (is a) sports league championship event (is a sports event) (is an) event ..and so on ..

              I'd mainly like this to reduce data duplication across types, and to enable querying across sub-types i.e. give me all the sports events held at Wembley in 2008 (although I suppose this is possible at the moment, but there is some duplication of data required i.e. location, date/time etc)

              Just to add: 

              The "sports league championship" type naming is probably misleading but the schema does fairly accurately describe all football cup events (Essentially the FA cup is a league championship for the FA associated teams, and the 1999 FA Cup Final was for the 2008-2009 FA Cup Season)  

              The biggest difference for football I can see is in the multi-format competitions (although these are similar to american sports which the sports event types seem to have been created for) where you start with a league format and then a set of play off matches to arrive at a single winner i.e. world cup, euros, champions league

            5.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 30, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              >I notice that there is no direct relationship between players and teams (only via squad or match) 

              I've added a time-mediated property soccer player tenure.

               >and that in the case of Manchester United, you've co-typed it as both a squad and a team, which seems confusing based on the type descriptions. 

              Now fixed, I've split the squad from the team.

               >Should soccer field include sports arena? 

              now typed with sports facility.

               

              >For goals, I think the disambiguator "team" is ambiguous

               now called "point awarded to"

              >A soccer league does not seem to contain any teams.

              I've created soccer league participation which is time-mediated using seasons instead of dates. 

              >Why is a soccer league also a soccer competition?

              This was where I was having issues.  I'm trying to get my head around the Sports commons and also get some abstract inheritance in. I was trying to make league competitions different from cup competitions, and possibly different from multi-format competitions - yet all have a common inheritance from soccer competition.

              >Soccer competition's property "seasons" expects "Event" rather than Soccer Soccer competion season.

              fixed this. 

              >Speaking of soccer competition season, the "matches" property should probably be reciprocated on the Match type.

              now reciprocated. 

               >If possible, it'd be great if these types could inherit properly from the existing sports events/sports league championship events .. 

              absolutely, my problem is that I'm not too familiar with the sports commons. But if you could point out which types to include, I'll update the schema.  I've done soccer match now.
               

              I've also added a schema for player transfers and loans. 

              All my types are still in association football, and I'd appreciate any further comments on the types.  If we feel some of the types/properties are OK I will start replicating them in the soccer commons.  (with the plan to eventually move everything over and delete association football).

                   

            6.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 7, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              I'm planning to move the schema from association football over the next few days.

              If anyone has further comments or improvements to the schema, please let me know.

            7.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 9, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              Job done!  The schema is now up and running in the soccer commons.

              Hopefully I got everything from football association across (I purposefully left out squads and competition season types as I think they're a bit flaky), but let me know if there's something wrong. 

              Ideas for the next feature are welcome :)

            8.  
              zeusi Freebase Experts
              Jun 13, 2010
              zeusi says:

              I use this thread as a general one about the domain.

              A simple question: Football Competition type should be used for event or recurring event ?

            9.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 14, 2010
              sprocketonline says:

              Football Competition is a mess. I would suggest it's the recurring event, but open to interpretation. Definitely something to be fixed by the new Tournament schema.

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close Soccer
          • close jeff
          • close logiclabs
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        27.  

          type of event

          also posted to
          • Event
          4 posts, latest post: jeff, Apr 5, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Sep 7, 2009
            spencermountain says:

            how bout a 'type of event' property? this would increase the mapping power of this type substantially. like 'protest', 'celebration' , 'amphibious assault'.....

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 10, 2009
              jeff says:

              Yes, I think that would make sense -- there are many more different kinds of events than we're ever likely to have different types for.

            2.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Apr 3, 2010
              thadguidry says:

              I have a good list of exhibitors at various annual industry conference events. Those events are usually linked to particular subjects, such as Transportation Engineering, but broader use at an industry level "Transportation" at minimum would be acceptable.

              Somehow linking the Industry with a Conference Event. However that can happen, I'm all for it.

              Example: NYSATE Technical Conference http://www.freebase.com/type/schema/user/thadguidry/default_domain/exhibitor

            3.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Apr 5, 2010
              jeff says:

              I can't get to your exhibitor type, but the way you linked the NYSATE Technical Conference to "Transportation" looks to me like the best way to do it. You could also link it to Transport engineering, if that's more precise.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        28.  

          Boats_designed broken

          also posted to
          • Ship Designer
          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Mar 29, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Mar 27, 2010
            tfmorris says:

            It looks like something didn't get moved correctly when this type was promoted. Boats_designed expects a private type. It should expect Ship and it should be reciprocated from there.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Mar 29, 2010
              jeff says:

              Good catch. DA-1105

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        29.  

          unique properties

          also posted to
          • Cricket Player
          4 posts, latest post: jeff, Mar 25, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Mar 25, 2010
            sprocketonline says:

            I would think that batting-style, ODI stats and Test stats should be unique properties.

            1.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Mar 25, 2010
              pak21 says:

              What about those truly ambidextrous players, for example David Warner? This isn't the Kevin Pietersen style switch-hit where he changes position after the ball has been bowled, but he actually takes guard from both stances.

              +1 on the stats.

            2.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Mar 25, 2010
              sprocketonline says:

              Ambidexterity is one of the enumerated options already.

            3.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Mar 25, 2010
              jeff says:

              Added to the latest uniquification task: DA-1102

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        30.  

          Director property

          also posted to
          • TV Program,
          • TV Director
          5 posts, latest post: jeff, Mar 10, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Jul 13, 2009
            sprocketonline says:

            I'd like to suggest that a Director (or recurring Director) property is added to TV Program.

            1.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Mar 9, 2010
              sprocketonline says:

              bumping. No action on this, and I still require this property.

            2.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Mar 9, 2010
              jeff says:

              What about using eMQL for this? Since the data is already there (that is, on the episodes themselves), using eMQL to collect them and expose them at the program level might work, and spare us the semi-denormalization. (This is a suggestion, mind you; I haven't really played around with eMQL much.)

            3.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Mar 10, 2010
              sprocketonline says:

              The problem is that I don't have episode data, just the tv program level data. As we already have this denormalisation for actors, writers and producers, it would be useful to have it for directors as well.

            4.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Mar 10, 2010
              jeff says:

              Yeah, I'm not crazy about the writer denormalization, either, since all we're doing is saying "people who have done X thing more than (some threshold)." (The producer and actor ones are a bit different, since the role of the producer of an entire program vs. a single episode is different, as are the semantics of a "starring" acting role vs. appearing in an episode.) Let's run it by the discuss list and see if we can get more input there.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        31.  

          event location

          also posted to
          • Location,
          • Location
          5 posts, latest post: spencermountain, Mar 10, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Mar 27, 2009
            spencermountain says:

            hey, while trying to model 'crime scene' i have stumbled upon the fact that the 'location' property of the event type is not reciprocated anywhere. Why not recip it here in location, as 'events that happened here'? then we can simply do things like -also typed as 'crime', or 'protests that have happened here' and so forth.

            i think this would be splendid.

            -cheers:)

            1.  
              penumbra2000
              Mar 9, 2010
              penumbra2000 says:

              I second this idea.

            2.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Mar 9, 2010
              spencermountain says:

              jeff?

            3.  
              typelibrarian Metaweb Current Staff
              Mar 9, 2010
              typelibrarian says:

              Yes, good idea. This is something that had been kicked around so many times, we sort of lost track of it. I've added the reverse property to Location now.

            4.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Mar 10, 2010
              spencermountain says:

              thanks!

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        32.  

          Uniquify Founded

          also posted to
          • Radio Station
          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Mar 9, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Mar 9, 2010
            sprocketonline says:

            The /broadcast/radio_station/founded property should be uniquified.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Mar 9, 2010
              jeff says:

              Good catch. Added to the current uniquification task, DA-976.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        33.  

          promotion of public speaking event schema

          also posted to
          • Conferences and Conventions
          9 posts, latest post: spencermountain, Feb 18, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Feb 15, 2010
            spencermountain says:

            hey jeff, this conference schema,(which i am the admin) is long-due for some adjustments. its breaking the rules infact, pretty bad. and i'm to blame. http://lists.freebase.com/pipermail/data-modeling/2009-September/002181.html

            i'd like to delete /online proceedings delete /proceedings delete /sessions promote /base/public speaking event schema (all of it) promote /geographical_area_for_recurring_events

            thoughts?

            1.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Feb 15, 2010
              spencermountain says:

              (this time with formatting) i'd like to:

              delete /online proceedings

              delete /proceedings

              delete /sessions

              promote /base/public speaking event schema (all of it)

              promote /geographical_area_for_recurring_events

            2.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Feb 15, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              Even with the formatting I'm not sure what you're referring to. The fully qualified name for /online proceedings appears to be /conferences/conference/online_proceedings, but I can't figure out the rest (except for /base/public speaking obviously). Where are they? Using either fully qualified names or Freebase's linking facility would help.

            3.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Feb 15, 2010
              spencermountain says:

              sorry

              delete /conferences/conference/online_proceedings (map this now with /common/resource)

              delete /conferences/conference/proceedings (replace it with 'presented work' type from /base/public_speaking)

              delete /conferences/conference_session (an unreciprocated old type)

              promote /base/public speaking event schema (all of it)

              promote /conferences/conference_series/geographical_area_for_recurring_events, (which is a type on the /events base)

            4.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Feb 16, 2010
              jeff says:

              Quick thoughts:

              1. Conference Proceedings is not the same as Presented Work -- a proceedings is a publication of (a selection of) the papers presented at a conference; a presented work is one such paper.
              2. Online proceedings does seem unnecessary now, so deleting it would make sense. Same goes for /conferences/conference/url.
              3. I'm not sure about Conference Session. I guess the intent is to replace it with Public speaking event?
              4. /conferences/conference/papers should not expect Conference Proceedings (see above). Assuming we go with #3, the "papers" property would be superfluous because Public Speaking Event already takes you there (albeit through a CVT).
              5. /conferences/conference/venue needs to expect a Commons type.
              6. Why not use a conference-specific Scope type? (E.g. "Conference Geographic Scope"?)
            5.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Feb 17, 2010
              spencermountain says:

              +1 jeffman. Geographical scope i'd really like to see on /time/recurring_event, but Conference Geographic Scope works aswell.

            6.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Feb 17, 2010
              jeff says:

              For a start, I've renamed "papers" to "proceedings"; I was wrong in #4 above -- we want that connection, just under a different label. And I've create the task to delete the "online proceedings" and "url" properties and to change the expected type of "venue": DA-1076.

            7.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Feb 18, 2010
              tfmorris says:

              If Conference Session is deleted, what links a generic Public Speaking Event to its associated conference?

              Note also that conference have presentation types which don't really have much to do with public speaking. I guess a panel session could be considered a form of public speaking (although not a speech), but poster presentations (ie put a few words/diagrams on a posterboard, stand it on an easel, and stand next to it answering questions) aren't. I think papers can also get "presented" just by dint of being in the proceedings, even if they don't have an associated session/talk.

              1.  
                spencermountain Freebase Experts
                Feb 18, 2010
                spencermountain says:

                //If Conference Session is deleted, what links a generic Public Speaking Event to its associated conference? it cotypes it.

                //but poster presentations (ie put a few words/diagrams on a posterboard, stand it on an easel, and stand next to it answering questions) aren't. good point. the posterboard would be a 'presented work' and 'Type of public presentation' would be 'poster presentation' or something.

                maybe Public speaking event should be renamed to Public presentation event

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        34.  

          subjects

          also posted to
          • Topic
          1 post, latest post: spencermountain, Jan 24, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Jan 24, 2010
            spencermountain says:

            hey jeff, is the /common/topic/subject abandoned? http://www.freebase.com/view/user/spencermountain/default_domain/views/subjects_is_broken

            if not, can i help with moving things over from film subject etc?

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        35.  

          Trade Number

          also posted to
          • Consumer product
          6 posts, latest post: skud, Jan 18, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            drakecaiman Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            May 15, 2008
            drakecaiman says:

            Are there any plans to add a property for Universal Product Codes or Global Trade Item Numbers? Seems like a useful property to have, and it could be applied to a lot of the topics on Freebase (computer games, comics, etc.)

            1.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Jul 6, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              yes. agree here.

              there are many types of barcode systems thpough, so maybe it belongs in a seperate type?, which this type could eventually cotype.

              i've got my hands on a big database of upc codes....

              as long as this schema gets some +1's i'll upload it to this type this week.

            2.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 6, 2009
              jeff says:

              GTIN is a property of consumer product. We used GTIN because UPC, EAN, and a few other barcode types are easily convertable to it.

            3.  
              doconnor Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jan 18, 2010
              doconnor says:

              Can GTIN be made a disambiguator?

              I'd love to just cut and paste in http://www.earthyself.com/blog/dvd-barcodes or do CSV exports of a whole lot of point of sale systems to quickly beef up this data set.

            4.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Jan 18, 2010
              pak21 says:

              You should be able to use the spreadsheet loader to import that data without it being a disambiguator.

            5.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Jan 18, 2010
              skud says:

              GTIN as disambiguator makes sense to me. Anyone else care to weigh in?

          Discussion is posted in:

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        36.  

          Sports played?

          also posted to
          • Athlete
          5 posts, latest post: jeff, Jan 15, 2010
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            jeff Metaweb Current Staff
            Dec 28, 2009
            jeff says:

            What do people think about a "Sports played professionally" property on this type? I think it would be useful for a couple reasons. One is that we don't (and won't any time soon, if ever) have as many sport-specific "Sport Player" as there are professional sports, so we can't rely on co-types to tell us what any given pro athlete's sport is. The other is that, even if we did have a complete set of Sport Player types, lots of pro athletes have played other sports non-professionally (e.g. in college or post-retirement), which are legitimate uses of those types, so co-types will never be a reliable guide to a pro athlete's professional sport(s).

            For extra points, we could refactor the Start/End of career dates into a CVT with Sport, so that multisport pro athletes could have different start and end dates for different sports.

            Thoughts?

            1.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Dec 28, 2009
              tfmorris says:

              If you implemented your second suggestion, you wouldn't need the first, since the Sport would be specified in the CVT, right? That seems like the more powerful solution, since it would allow you to construct queries like "show me all people who were playing professional basketball in 1982." Does it have implications for any of the sport-specific types (ie do they have start/end career dates)?

              1.  
                faye Metaweb Current Staff
                Dec 28, 2009
                faye says:

                +1 for CVT with career start & end dates.

            2.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Dec 30, 2009
              jeff says:

              I prefer the CVT version as well. We could just hide/deprecate the old start/end date properties. None of the sport-specific types have career date properties, so we wouldn't have to refactor any of those.

            3.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jan 15, 2010
              jeff says:

              Done! Deprecating the old properties will have to wait until the data is migrated (which might take a little while, since we want to try to assert sports played as well).

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        37.  

          Should be a CVT

          also posted to
          • Long list nomination
          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Dec 15, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Dec 15, 2009
            sprocketonline says:

            I think the Long list nomination type should be a CVT.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Dec 15, 2009
              jeff says:

              Oops! Fixed now, thanks.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        38.  

          Employment Tenure...variation of?

          also posted to
          • Employment tenure
          8 posts, latest post: pak21, Dec 12, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            dme
            Dec 11, 2009
            dme says:

            Currently, Employment Tenure is defined by two dates that connote the start and end of the tenure. I would like to be able to add supporting data to what is an unknown tenure that would assist future contributors. I suggest that we add a field called KnownToBeInPositionDuring. In this manner I could add a year that I believe someone held a position, but was not necessarily the first, or last, year of their employment. Alternatively we could always resort to the handy-dandy multi-purpose field name that is suitable for just about every occasion: Notes.

            1.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Dec 11, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              i like this idea. we could just hide the property. (cc-ing jeff) do you have much data?

            2.  
              dme
              Dec 11, 2009
              dme says:

              ...could also just name it During.

              @ this point I am just getting my feet wet with FB (what's the preferred acronym that avoids confusion with Facebook?); Yesterday I attended the New York Freebase Workshop http://wiki.freebase.com/wiki/Freebase_Workshop_NYC_2009 where I met: Robert Cook, Jamie Taylor, and Will Moffat

              Alas, I am currently doing my edits by hand and I am not a possessor of a large data-set with Freebase Potential...@ least not anything obvious, yet.

              Here's a new question: Where can I suggest, or edit, the Help Text that displayed when you click on the (?) button...here's a link to a screengrab: http://aviary.com/artists/dme212/creations/freebase_helptext

              --Dan

            3.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Dec 11, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              welcome to freebase dan~ the pink stuff comes from the schema documentation, which in the case of /people/person is locked with admin permissions so its only possible to improve documentation for types that you've created yourself... frustrating i know, because schema builders don't always properly document things. @workshop - lucky! those guys never seem to travel up to northern Ontario....

              1.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Dec 11, 2009
                jeff says:

                But the admins are always open to suggestions for improvements! The best place to make the suggestion is on the discussion board for the type in question.

                On the larger question of known good dates, I'm pretty sure this has come up before. Let me see if I can find the old discussions, in case they shed any light on the issue.

              2.  
                jeff Metaweb Current Staff
                Dec 12, 2009
                jeff says:

                Well, here it is -- not so enlightening after all. The main issue, schema-wise, is that the same problem potentially exists for all types with a date range, and is related to the perennial "circa" problem with single dates.

            4.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Dec 11, 2009
              skud says:

              Spencer: I thought you were in Toronto? If so, I am in fact planning to be there in February and was going to talk to you about having a Freebase meetup while I'm there. It would probably be during the week starting Feb 8th.

            5.  
              pak21 Freebase Experts
              Dec 12, 2009
              pak21 says:

              I'd really rather not end up with two properties to determine who worked where when: that's just going to make the life of anybody searching for data that much harder. I know it's not perfect, but how about just setting "start end" and "end date" to the year in question?

          Discussion is posted in:

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        39.  

          Welcome to the Hall of Shame!

          also posted to
          • gmackenz
          2 posts, latest post: gmackenz, Nov 17, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            pak21 Freebase Experts
            Nov 17, 2009
            pak21 says:

            Gentlemen,

            You are currently in the Hall of Shame.

            1.  
              gmackenz Metaweb Current Staff
              Nov 17, 2009
              gmackenz says:

              Mah! But I filled out the property hints, can I get a bronze star at least?

              Heh, filling out descriptions.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        40.  

          Classification property for Retail Location?

          also posted to
          • Organization Location
          4 posts, latest post: sprocketonline, Nov 12, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            jonathanwlowe Top Contributor
            Sep 7, 2007
            jonathanwlowe says:

            Given only the existing properties of Retail Location (name, address, hours of operation), there's no way to know what that retail location sells or what industry it is a part of. What is the best way to include an industrial classification with a topic that falls under the Retail Location type?

            Could another property be added to the Retail Location type mirroring the way that the Company and Industry types are bi-directionally linked by the "Companies in this Industry" property of the Industry type? Or, using the existing types, should a Retail Location also be typed as a Company in order to be classifiable in an Industry? (The second option seems like overkill, especially for small businesses that are poor matches for the definition of the Company type.)

            I would like to do a bulk upload of Retail Location data for London, England, but first want to be sure I have the proper structure for my data.

            1.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Nov 11, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              Just came across this. I'd definitely support a business category property on business location.

              It would be useful to model whether a business location operated by a company is a cafe or their offices.

            2.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Nov 11, 2009
              skud says:

              How about "type of business location" as a name?

            3.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Nov 12, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              That would work, although I'd try to avoid using the word 'type' in schema - it gets confusing when discussing schema types.

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close Organization Location
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        41.  

          Parent_Company is Unique

          also posted to
          • Organization Location
          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Nov 11, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Nov 11, 2009
            sprocketonline says:

            Is there any reason why parent company is non-unique? Could it be unique?

            Throw in a /business/business_location/closing_date and as business location HAS-A /location/location, business location provides time-mediation between an individual company and a location.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Nov 11, 2009
              jeff says:

              Um, I can't think of a good reason why it's non-unique. I'll throw it out to the mailing lists to see if anyone can think of a use case (and also because uniquifying is a breaky change).

          Discussion is posted in:

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        42.  

          Closing date

          also posted to
          • Organization Location
          6 posts, latest post: jeff, Nov 11, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            boris
            Apr 17, 2009
            boris says:

            I'm currently looking at restaurants. Many of them are owned by parent groups or chains, and will have opening and closing dates. Can we add a closing date to business location?

            Defunct company is the only other related topic, and it imports all of company, which is a bit of overkill.

            1.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Apr 19, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              I agree, we need a closing date for business location.

              However, I think business location might be better off including 'dated location' type?

            2.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Apr 20, 2009
              jeff says:

              I'd support adding a closing date. Since we don't treat Business Locations as Locations, I don't think using Dated Location is the right approach.

            3.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Nov 11, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              If I understand https://bugs.freebase.com/browse/DA-808 then business location will be IS-A location. If so, can we reconsider using the dated location type? This would allow us to then delegate business location's opening_date property (and a new closing_date property) to the relevant dated location property.

            4.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Nov 11, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              ah no! it's to remain HAS-A location http://markmail.org/message/db76hw73tdof6upm?q=freebase+list:com.freebase.data-modeling+date:200911+from:%22Jeff+Prucher%22&page=1

              Scrap the request for dated location!

              Could we get a /business/business_location/closing_date though?

            5.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Nov 11, 2009
              jeff says:

              Yes! We should have done that ages ago -- sorry about that!

          Discussion is posted in:

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        43.  

          subject

          also posted to
          • Magazine genre,
          • Books
          5 posts, latest post: spencermountain, Sep 30, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Sep 27, 2009
            spencermountain says:

            if we are using 'magazine genre's instead of subjects, magazine genre should then attatch to subject.

            1.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Sep 27, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              either way, we should clear this up. is magazine genre the same as subject? it is being used as both 'magazine type' (eg men's magazine) and 'magazine subject' (eg hockey) ambiguously.

            2.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Sep 27, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              ... if it's a subject property, and its not using our general subject type, it needs a phylogeny.

            3.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 28, 2009
              jeff says:

              Looks like this type is just badly defined. It really should just be for the genre (and, fortunately, mostly has been used that way) and not the subject. (The two are perhaps more intimately connected for this type than genre and subject usually are, but that's no excuse for bad documentation.)

            4.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Sep 30, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              i like genre better too subjects can go into /book/periodical/subject i'll do some work cleaning this up

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close Magazine genre
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        44.  

          merge types

          also posted to
          • Diet,
          • Food & Drink,
          • skud
          2 posts, latest post: thadguidry, Sep 17, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Jun 16, 2009
            spencermountain says:

            i suggested this before this type got promoted, but it got fanned over somewhere,

            we definetly definetly should merge this type with  this one, which already has tons of data, and it seems has been overlooked. 

            1.  
              thadguidry Freebase Experts
              Sep 17, 2009
              thadguidry says:

              I agree somewhat. Funny, I just posted my Need to expand beyond just followers. And THEN, I read your post here. LOL. However your suggestion is fairly comprehensive. I was thinking more along the lines of what I suggested, since not all followers necessarily are orthodox (strict followers), so a quick selection drop down might be a better approach and cover a broader use? I thinking on just the basics as shown in this table ... http://asiarecipe.com/religion.html

              X - prohibited or strongly discouraged A - avoided by the most devout R - some restrictions regarding types of foods or when foods are eaten O - permitted, but may be avoided at some observances

              Anyone else ? Let's get this merged somehow. I need it somewhat and I'm sure others do as well. Put it to a vote.

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close Diet
          • close Food & Drink
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        45.  

          Reasoning behind Employer?

          also posted to
          • Organization,
          • skud
          5 posts, latest post: jeff, Sep 8, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Jun 23, 2008
            sprocketonline says:

            Why is the Employer type included by default, can I ask for the reasoning behind that?

             I feel that most organisations that aren't businesses aren't employers (cub packs, programming meets etc.)

            1.  
              crism Freebase Experts
              Jun 24, 2008
              crism says:

              Remember that Freebase included types aren’t a strict subtyping mechanism; you can always remove a type from an instance. So a programming meet could be typed as an Organization, and then Employer can be removed.
              It was felt (by whoever did this—I’m not sure who) that *most* organizations likely to be in Freebase are also employers. If you disagree, it would be interesting to see how many organizations that you think are noteworthy enough to belong here are not employers. Maybe a random sample. Can you post some numbers?

            2.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              May 25, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              i  agree that employer should be un-cotyped.

              check out the 'organisation types' and you'll find most of them are not employers http://www.freebase.com/view/organization/organization_type

               

              cheers

            3.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Sep 5, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              this is a big deal and is really adding alot of wrong assertions. look at types that cotype organisation very few are employers. cub_scout_ group, fanclub, criminal_organisation it should really be uncotyped promptly.

            4.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 8, 2009
              jeff says:

              Y'know, I think you're right. There was a time when we were thinking that "employer" and "employee" could be considered loosely enough to include employment-like relationships (such as an unpaid officer of an organization), but I think that that probably doesn't really work. I'll wait for any more comments before changing the model (OK, removing an included type isn't much of a schematic change, per se) just in case somebody objects.

          Discussion is posted in:

          • close Organization
          • close jeff
          • close skud

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        46.  

          Laur Craft

          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Sep 4, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Sep 4, 2009
            tfmorris says:

            There seem to have been 4 different copies of this person (two authors & two award winners) created by you a few days ago. I'm not sure if you were using a new tool or ran into a bug or what, but if you can remember what you were doing, you might want to try and track down any other duplicates which might be lurking.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 4, 2009
              jeff says:

              Thanks for catching this. There were a few others (fortunately only a very few). Looks like I found a bug in the spreadsheet loader.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        47.  

          What about sponsors ?

          also posted to
          • Conference event,
          • cheunger
          9 posts, latest post: spencermountain, Sep 3, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            ft
            Sep 1, 2009
            ft says:

            Hi,

            I see that the OSCON2009 home page at http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2009 features an impressive list of sponsors, I don't see anything, however, in the conference event schema, that would allow me to assert the sponsorship relationship between a conference event and a company.

            Would it make sense to add a sponsor property to the conference event type ?

            Thanks 

            1.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Sep 1, 2009
              skud says:

              Bringing Jeff and Bryan in on this... we were discussing a more general sponsorship model a couple of months back.  Did that ever go anywhere?

            2.  
              cheunger Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 1, 2009
              cheunger says:

              A sponsorship model was promoted to the /business domain.  See sponsor, sponsorship and sponsored recipient.

            3.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Sep 1, 2009
              skud says:

              So, should Conference include the Sponsored Recipient type?

            4.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 1, 2009
              jeff says:

              I'm guessing that most Conference Events are not sponsored in this sense, so my first impulse is "no", but it's not an especially strong impulse.

            5.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Sep 2, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              great idea ft.Conference series has a sponsorship property, but this should be optionally on conference event aswell.

              im an admin on this (poorly admined) base, and will cotype 'Sponsored Recipient' and hide our sponsor property unless someone says i shouldnt.

            6.  
              ft
              Sep 2, 2009
              ft says:

              Thanks for all your replies, as hinted by cheunger, I used the sponsor, sponsorship and sponsored recipient types to assert to assert the sponsorship relationship between OSCON2009 and a few companies.

              I thought it had to be a fairly tedious affair to perform the appropriate co-typing and property filling, but  the impressive fluidity of the UI made it quite an enjoyable experience.

              Kudos to the Freebase team. 

            7.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Sep 2, 2009
              jeff says:

              Looks like we're using "sponsor" in two different ways in this schema. The "sponsoring organization" of Conference Series is the organization that puts on the conference, rather than one that supports a conference financially (or through other means).

            8.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Sep 3, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              we could have each conference as a 'project', which has fundraising stuff....

          Discussion is posted in:

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        48.  

          Quotation Field for political statements?

          also posted to
          • Help,
          • Creating Schemas
          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Aug 27, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            benrigby
            Aug 22, 2009
            benrigby says:

            Hi Jeff. 
            I'm new to FreeBase - just getting into it - researching the "Quotation" field for People - which is looks like you created. Wondering if I can ask you a question about it.

            My organization is about to have 1000s of people combing through news stories looking for statements that politicians have made about various topics such as envioronment, health care, budget, etc.

            It occurred to me that we could contribute all of these attributions to Freebase. I'm wondering if the Quotation field is the proper place to put them. A sample entry might contain the following:

            Person:  Arnold Schwarzenegger

            Subject: Environment

            Quote:  "We now know that what we've done in the past 100 years has caused such unbelievable damage to the world. We didn't know better, but now we do, and now it's not okay. There are certain things we know will happen in the next 30 to 40 years if we don't roll it back. So we have to start doing it now."

            Source: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/04/02/8403410/index.htm

            Date: March 23 2007

            Can you point me in the right direction? Even better, to a simple API script that I could use to make these contributions?  

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Aug 27, 2009
              jeff says:

              Sorry I haven't been able to respond sooner.  I think that Quotation is the right place for this kind of data.  One possible issue is that "source" can't be a weblink -- "source" goes to a topic that represents the place the quotation appeared (in this case, probably an interview titled "The Governator's green agenda"). If you're just copying URLs, though, and not really going for the whole bibliographic nine yards, the URL could go into the "web links" property.

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          • close Creating Schemas

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        49.  

          Separate Library System from Library/structure

          also posted to
          • Boscawen Public Library,
          • tfmorris,
          • Library
          5 posts, latest post: tfmorris, Aug 17, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Aug 15, 2009
            sprocketonline says:

            This Boscawen Public Library is currently flagged for merge with Boscawen Public Library topic.

            One first is both a library and library system, but the second is a building.  I don't think the library system type and the building or structure types are compatible.

            Perhaps the former topic should be for the library system, and kept separate from the second topic which is the structure? (and the library type moved to the appropriate topic)

            1.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Aug 16, 2009
              tfmorris says:

              I agree that this probably should be more than one topic, but I'm not sure what the best way to organize them is.  The idiom of combined library & library system seems to be used a lot for small one library "library systems,"  so splitting them all would be a fair amount of work for not a lot of benefit. 

              Colloquial usage by people tends to consider the library institution and the library structure to be one and the same, but it's really the same situation as museums where you can have a one room library in a building or libraries can move from building to building.

              It's a modeling fidelity vs user confusion/work tradeoff that I don't feel strongly about one way or another, so I guess we should get Jeff or one of the Library admins to weigh in or make the call.

              The choices are:

              1. One topic
              2. Three topics
              3. Library System/Library + Building
              4. Library System + Building/Library

              It sounds like you'd lean towards #4.  I think I'd lean towards #3 for fidelity and #1 for ease of use.

            2.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Aug 17, 2009
              jeff says:

              I definitely support splitting the libraries from the library systems. I think the type is (or was) documented in such a way that the main branch of each system should be combined with the system itself, but that just seems confusing to me.

              The building vs. thing the building is used for is a perennial problem, and not one we've ever really solved.  What I'm leaning towards now would be to cotype the library (museum, embassy, etc.) with the building/building complex where appropriate (since as Tom points out there are lots of cases where the library/museum/whatnot might only take up part of a building). And also with the clear expectation that these combined topics will have to sometimes be split when the building user moves to a new location (which can result in the confusing situation where the now vacated building is still known as the library building, even though it now serves some other purpose). I guess that'd be a long-winded way of saying #4.

              (I'm drawn to #2 for fidelity, but I also reconize that it would border on being unusable.)

            3.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Aug 17, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              #2 would be the best, but is overkill for most libraries.

              #3 wouldn't work well for library systems which have multiple libraries (any national library, or large university library), and I agree with jeff that #4 would relate well with everyday use.

              And another edge case - my library used to be in a van which would tour around the region.  So no building involved at all :)

            4.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Aug 17, 2009
              tfmorris says:

              I should have clarified that my support of #3 was only for the library systems with a single library.

              I'm happy with #4 as long as we're consistent about it.

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        50.  

          Diocese and Archdiocese types

          also posted to
          • skud
          17 posts, latest post: sprocketonline, Jul 19, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            rybesh Top Contributor
            Jun 29, 2009
            rybesh says:

            I need Diocese and Archdiocese types for a list of Roman Catholic dioceses in Ireland. I see you have created these in the Anglicanism base... should I create separate Roman Catholic diocese types, or can we somehow make expand the existing types to include both Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism?

            1.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              @rybesh,  I've already been working on some generic types which should work with any religion.  I've called the type Religious Jurisdiction.  Let me know if you have any comments on the type.

              @jeff - where did we get to with promoting these types to the commons?

            2.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              skud says:

              There's been some work on a Religious Jurisdiction type recently.  I think this is a much better general solution.  It should get promoted to the Religion Commons soon, I think.  There's a discussion about it here: http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000be1bdd2

            3.  
              rybesh Top Contributor
              Jun 29, 2009
              rybesh says:

              Religious Jurisdiction looks perfect. Thanks!

            4.  
              rybesh Top Contributor
              Jun 29, 2009
              rybesh says:

              Seems I can't use this yet. Is there some way to use a type before it's been promoted to the Commons?

            5.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              It's sitting in my personal domain at the moment, so will still be considered a 'draft'.

              I've now created a base http://religiousjurisdiction.freebase.com/

              Let me know if it still doesn't work. 

            6.  
              zeusi Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              zeusi says:

              I think you have to add the reciprocal link from Religious Leader to Religious Leader Tenure.

            7.  
              zeusi Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              zeusi says:

              Sorry, I had not seen Religious Leader is in Commons.

            8.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 29, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              It's getting promoted: https://bugs.freebase.com/browse/DA-838

              Thanks for pointing the need for the reciprocation.  Hopefully the reciprocation will happen once the promotion is done.

            9.  
              rybesh Top Contributor
              Jun 29, 2009
              rybesh says:

              I can use it now, sprocketonline. Thanks for your help.

            10.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 29, 2009
              jeff says:

              @sproketonline: Sorry! -- the promotion task is in my queue, but the plotting out of the actual migration gives me a headache, so I keep putting it off. I'll get it moving along again.

            11.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 29, 2009
              jeff says:

              Actually, this will be a bit more straightforward than I thought -- we can promote the Jurisdiction type and some of its properties with minimal fuss -- it's just part of the model relating to religious organization leadership that gets messy, since it will require a refactoring of the existing religious organization leadership CVT. I'll update the task(s).

            12.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 29, 2009
              jeff says:

              Actually, I'm going to delay this -- the migration is too complex to do piecemeal. I've posted a query to the developers list about changing the expected type of /religious_organization_leadership/role to "Religious Leadership Title". Once we get buy-in for that, we can do the migration.

              I'll reciprocate the religious organization property of jurisdiction, though, so that people can better use the type in the mean time.

            13.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Jul 14, 2009
              skud says:

              I don't think anyone has queries that would be broken by this.  Can we move ahead?

            14.  
              cheunger Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 15, 2009
              cheunger says:

              I hope to have this done in the next day or so.

            15.  
              cheunger Metaweb Current Staff
              Jul 15, 2009
              cheunger says:

              DA-838 is complete - go crazy!

            16.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 19, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              wibble

               

              Thanks cheunger 

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        51.  

          patterns in schemas

          also posted to
          • Schema Patterns,
          • spatialed
          9 posts, latest post: sprocketonline, Jul 1, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Jun 21, 2009
            sprocketonline says:

            jeff,

            thought you might be interested in this one - I've created a base for common patterns in schemas.  I'd noticed you'd used the word 'phylogeny' a lot in relation to schema design, and thought it might be a good idea to identify the types which have this.

            What are your thoughts?

            Iain 

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 23, 2009
              jeff says:

              This is a cool idea. I was talking with Robert a little while back, and he's actually identified four different semantic patterns that use this schema design (that is, of types that have two properties that expect each other, there are four distinct relationships these represent). 

              1. Phylogeny: basically a hierarchical classification -- each topic is a member of a sub- or super-category. Organism classification is probably the canonical example.

              2. Parent-child: each topic is begotten by (or begets) the other topics. The TV Episode spin-offs property is a non-biological example. (Organism is the other biological example.)

              3. Sequence: you've already identified this

              4. Containment: I can't think of any besides Location, but that doesn't mean they're not out there.

              I tend to use "phylogeny" loosely when I'm talking about schemata to mean "two properties on a type that expect each other", since in terms of actual design there is no difference -- only in the ways humans interpret the patterns.

            2.  
              spatialed Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 25, 2009
              spatialed says:

              Wouldn't "Siblings" (single property linked to a CVT with a single property to indicate some form of equality) represent another type of relationship? Examples include Sibling relationship (of course) and the new Organization partnership.

            3.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 25, 2009
              jeff says:

              Yes -- Iain's called it the Peer schema pattern. We usually call it a sibling relationship, but it's the same thing.

            4.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 27, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              @ed, thanks for the example I've added it to the pattern.  I've also renamed peer to sibling and added an alias.

              @jeff Thanks for the input, I confused parent-child and phylogeny.  I've made a new parent child type and renamed properties in phylogeny. 

              I'm still slightly unsure about the definitions, particularly the difference between phylogeny, parent/child and containment, so I've tried to define them in stricter terms using graph theory concepts:

              1. Phylogeny - It is a forest/directed acyclic graph.  I'm still slightly confused about how it is used in freebase - it is a self reciprocating parent/child relationship. e.g. organism classification to organism classification.  If it the property links two different types, it would be a parent/child.  Also, if the property linking to the parent is unique, it wouldn't allow union between trees so isn't a forest graph, and is just a tree graph - therefore a containment pattern.
              2. Parent/Child - A directed acyclic graph/forest where topics are vertices and properties edges.  Given my guess that a phylogeny is a parent/child between one type, this pattern is different by being between two types.  i.e. the parent is a different type from the child.  e.g. book to book edition.
              3. Sequence - an acyclic path graph
              4. Containment - In set theory, A is a proper subset of B.  And would be a tree in graph theory.  This would be a self reciprocating property, otherwise it is a parent/child pattern.
              5. Sibling - graphs between topics of the same type, with a definition of some sort of equality between linked topics.  I was going to suggest it be a complete graph based on the /people/siblings, but realised that wouldn't necessarily work for step families or /influence_node/peers.

              I think this makes sense, and if these concepts are OK I'll update the descriptions on the pattern CVTs.

              Given the graph theory rules, it would be possible to run a bot and identify topics for data gardening, or identify types/properties which follow these patterns based on their current use in freebase.

            5.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 27, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              my definition of phlogeny being distinct from a parent/child purely based on whether a property is self-reciprocated on the same type, or is reciprocated on a different type doesn't feel right.

              Under that definition it means that the relationship between /people/person/parents and /people/person/children is a phylogeny rather than a parent/child relationship....

              Not intuitive, but perhaps logically OK?

              Otherwise the seperation between phylogeny and parent-child patterns would have to be based entirely on whether the topic is an abstract concept e.g. organism classification, or is a real object e.g. person.  And that's a whole other rabbit hole.

              gaah! *head explodes* 

            6.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 29, 2009
              jeff says:

              Note that I didn't make up these distinctions, so I accept no credit or blame for them. :)

              Re phylogeny vs. parent-child: it does seem to fall into abstract vs. concrete, doesn't it?  I think there is a logical difference between the relationship of a partent to a child and a genus to a species, however: a genus is a category that comprises one or more species; a parent is not a category, and does not comprise any children. To take this away from people, the "spin-off/spun off from" properties of Company are a parent/child pattern, but the "parent company/subsidiary companies" properties are a phylogeny (although in this case, a date-mediated one).

              Note that species are also proper subsets of genuses, so I don't think that that can be the distinguishing factor between phylogeny and containment.

              Properties linking two different types are an interesting point: these can follow the same semantic patterns as any of the ones listed above, but are inherently limited in number of steps, rather than open-ended, which is what we've largely been discussing here.  (So Adaptation/Adapted Work is a parent/child relationship; Country/Administrative Division is containment; etc.)

            7.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 30, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              properties of two different types -> I've tweaked the phylogeny, parent/child and containment types so they can have 2 different types (one for the parent type, and one for the child type).  If a type is self-reciprocating, the same type would appear in both properties.

              phylogeny vs parent/child ->  Agreed phylogeny is for abstract categories, parent/child for the concrete.  both super & sub* of a phylogeny are abstract categories/sets.

               phylogeny and containment ->  if phylogeny is for abstract categories which can contain other abstract categories, then containment is for the concrete/physical which can contain other concrete/physical?  e.g. location/location or building complex/building.

              * BTW I'm using super/sub in place of parent/child as a way of differentiating when speaking about phylogeny.

            8.  
              sprocketonline Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jul 1, 2009
              sprocketonline says:

              As the properties on phylogeny, parent/child and containment are now all the same (parent type, parent->child property, child type, child->parent property); I'm tempted to normalise and just have one type for all three patterns, but include an additional property called "pattern variation".

              This property would allow for differentiation between the patterns by selecting phylogeny, parent/child or containment from an enumeration.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        52.  

          Admins

          also posted to
          • More boats,
          • jamie,
          • tfmorris
          3 posts, latest post: jeff, Jun 30, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            skud Freebase Experts
            Jun 30, 2009
            skud says:

            Jamie, Jeff, Tom, I've just made you all admins of my "more boats" domain, where I'm working on cleaning up the mess in /boats.

            1.  
              tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Jun 30, 2009
              tfmorris says:

              Cool.  Pardon my ignorance, but what's the process/worfklow for working on this stuff?

            2.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Jun 30, 2009
              jeff says:

              I don't really know, but for now I'm just looking at the types, and will just post questions or suggestions when I have them.

          Discussion is posted in:

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        53.  

          Welcome back!

          2 posts, latest post: spatialed, Apr 4, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            tfmorris Top Contributor Freebase Experts
            Apr 3, 2009
            tfmorris says:

            Dude!  Welcome back.  You've been sorely missed.

            1.  
              spatialed Top Contributor Freebase Experts
              Apr 4, 2009
              spatialed says:

              Ditto!

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        54.  

          crime!

          3 posts, latest post: spencermountain, Feb 28, 2009
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            spencermountain Freebase Experts
            Feb 28, 2009
            spencermountain says:

            hi jeff, can you help me model Criminal Conviction? i'm stuck on trying to do jail time information like a 10-year sentence and things.

            I have it set up now as a cvs inside a cvs, but i dont think it likes that. It doesnt show up in the editor, bugs out when i try to edit it in detail view. Same thing  for fines, community service too i think probably. how would you do this if you were me?

            1.  
              skud Freebase Experts
              Feb 28, 2009
              skud says:

              Jeff's out on leave at the moment.  I'll try and take a look at it next week, but we're pretty crazy busy at the moment, so please remind me if I don't get to it.

            2.  
              spencermountain Freebase Experts
              Feb 28, 2009
              spencermountain says:

              thanks skud, no stress~

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        55.  

          Abstract Content

          3 posts, latest post: pvonstackelberg, Aug 14, 2007
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            pvonstackelberg
            Aug 7, 2007
            pvonstackelberg says:

            I think an abstract type should be fairly simple. The primary properties are:

            1. A name or title (the same as the article being abstracted).
            2. One to two paragraphs for text.

            Of course, we also need to be able to move back and forth between the abstract and the article that it is abstracting.

            The abstract structure from DocBook is probably the best example to use for properties in an abstract. That structure is documented at http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/abstract.html.

            Some more descriptive information about what abstracts should be is at:

            http://www.rpi.edu/web/writingcenter/abstracts.html
            http://leo.stcloudstate.edu/bizwrite/abstracts.html

            Let me know if you have any additional questions.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Aug 13, 2007
              jeff says:

              That looks pretty straightforward. The big question is, what type should it connect to? "Published Work" is the most general type for publishing, but since it includes books (of any type), stories, poems, essays, etc., as well as articles and non-fiction books, it seems a bit odd to put it there. On the other hand, I'm reluctant to add another type called "abstracted publication" (or something) that could be added as a co-type to any work that needed to have an abstract attached. Any thoughts?

            2.  
              pvonstackelberg
              Aug 14, 2007
              pvonstackelberg says:

              I'm trying to think through how these various types are related to each other.

              My thinking is that there is an Article type (perhaps your Published Work type). An article would be a type related to Periodical/Magazine, and an Abstract would be part of an Article. The relationships would be something like:

              Magazine > Article > Abstract

              Of course, there would be other types included within these.

              There clearly needs to be a linkage back and forth between these various types so that a user is able move from magazine to abstract to article. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with Freebase to say how this should be implemented.

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        56.  

          Abstract Type?

          2 posts, latest post: jeff, Aug 6, 2007
          Link to discussion
          1.  
            pvonstackelberg
            Aug 5, 2007
            pvonstackelberg says:

            Do you have any plans to put together an "Abstract" type for inclusion in the publishing domain? I'm currently putting together a series of types and need to include an "Abstract" as a property for a couple of them. If possible, I'd like to keep that type in the publishing domain rather than in the area that I'm working on.

            1.  
              jeff Metaweb Current Staff
              Aug 6, 2007
              jeff says:

              I hadn't thought about it, but it seems like a possibility. I know that the publishing domain doesn't currently have good models for academic/scientific publications, although I have been talking to some people about that, and it seems like "abstract" might fit in with that conversation. What properties do you think should go on it?

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        57.  

          ... and how are you, Mr. Wilson?

          1 post, latest post: techgnostic, May 4, 2007
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          1.  
            techgnostic Top Contributor
            May 4, 2007
            techgnostic says:

            "Well who in the encyclopedia wants to know?" Sorry, couldn't resist.

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