Discussions on rollie08

Hi Rollie,

Hmm, there seemed to be something funny with theedit page for the AA flight 383 topic - no images were shown. But after adding an existing image, it seems to work fine for me. Do you still have the same problem?

The view page and the base pages also seem to be working OK for me. But I haven't tried uploading anything.

Could you explain a bit more what the issue you see is? the page url, the buttons you clicked etc.. We'd be able to file a bug report for a staff member to look at if we had more detail.

Iain

Iain,

On this link, http://www.freebase.com/view/base/americanairlinesflight383/views/victims_of_aa_flight_383 and the one for TWA , many of the images are missing in the gallery view. Actually, they are missing in all of the galleries.The ones missing simply show a title and have an x in the left hand corner of each square. It has been this way for several days and I thought you may have been having technical problems.I still can not upload.

The image is visible inside the gallery but not on the referenced page.

Rollie

I am seeing 58 topics, all with images...You might want to change your views (now called a collections, with your collections mostly are set to view as galleries) to that of the summary view (select the type of view called summary and then save).

All of your views are resolving all of their topic's images.

You'll need to be very specific about the operating system of the computer, browser used, version of browser, any blocking add-ons/extensions used in browser.

I can see your base and its views with no issues using the latest fully up-to-date versions of Internet Explorer 6 & 7, FIrefox 3.5.3 and Safari 4.0.3. Please remember we officially support IE7.x+, FF3.x+ and Safari 3.x+ browser, we don't support the use of ad or site blocking extensions. Example, if you are blocking javascript, the viewing/editing experience will be very poor).

Steps to try to fix/isolate problem:

Delete all cookies related to .freebase.com or .metaweb.com in your browser. Delete/clear the browser cache. Force reload your collection page with shift key + reload browser button.

Testing for the break point: If you have another browser on the same computer, do you see the same issue? Another computer in same network, still have same issue? If you can use another computer outside the network you are currently having problems viewing pages, do you see the issue?

SPROCKETONLINE: What's up with this new design. Project is reaching critical mass in Hebron, Kentucky and I would like folks to have easy access to articles.

 Thanks

Hey rollie,

 The new design rolled out a week or so back, and is intended to help casual visitors to the site, who (we found by extensive user testing) were getting disoriented by the complicated mess of data on the old topic page, which we now call the "Edit" page.

 Here's a description from the blog: http://blog.freebase.com/2009/06/17/freebases-friendlier-topic-page/

Having said that... I have to wonder, what is this topic, "June 27, 2009" all about?  I feel that it probably doesn't belong in Freebase in this form.  If you want to communicate in this way, could you perhaps do it on your base's discussion forums, or somewhere like that?  Freebase is for structured data, as you know, and is a world-editable, shared database.  It's not a personal blog. This topic has no structured data associated with it and isn't of use to the broader structured data community, and I'm afraid we should really be marking it for deletion.  However, I'll give you a chance first to copy the content of it elsewhere.  Let me know when you're done.

Hi rollie, freebase is going through some teething issues with the new page design.  There have been a few discussions about what's happening, and we've noticed some bugs and room for improvement which will hopefully be sorted soon.

On a similar note, I notice this topic isn't exactly an encyclopedic article and reads more like a blog post.  It might be better suited to being hosted on a blog site with links back to freebase.  If it was on a blog site you could control exactly how the article was presented, and then have links from that to your base and views on freebase.  That might work out better, as I think freebase's philosophy is to focus their page design on presenting factual data in the best possible way which might not accomodate long articles well.

Actually it ia a historical timeline of what it is taking to erect a memorial in Boone County. The information includes details of facts as we know them today. In the recent article under question, it is based on interviews done with first responders and witnesses including historical documentation

of Boone Kentucky at time of accident. It is intended as a record.

 If you are going to delete, let me know and give me a week to find alternative website for my air disasters. A lot of work, money, time has gone into this.

 I would still need a writing platform for this history. I hope I can continue using FreeBase. I know you have copies of the work but now I must question rather I should continue placing quality research on this site. Remember, there is a lot of people out there to find and I am hoping this will continue to be the site.

Rollie: My name is Chris Haile. Yes, that Chris Haile. Mr. Stephens tracked down my sister Eileen, who called me this morning, alerting me to this site. I really don't know what to say, and I kind of blown away at the work that your doing.

You can contact me at fcbtu@yahoo.com.

Regards,

Chris

If you want to make a historical timeline, I'd suggest creating topics of type Event, which describe individual events that happen at a given time and place.  For example, you could create topics named, "Committee meeting to decide location of memorial", "Laying of foundation of memorial", etc.  Then there are properties on those topics for start/end date, and you can sort them by that, place them on an actual visual timeline, and so on. 

 Creating topics called "June 27, 2009" is awkward, because Freebase is a shared database, and everyone can access it and use it, so it would be perfectly reasonable for someone to come along and edit your topic to read: "June 27, 2009 was the 27th day of the month of June in the year 2009.  It occurred on a Saturday."  That would be a much more generally useful description of the topic, if you think of it in a global sense!  Now, obviously you don't want that to happen, so the best thing is to rename your topics to what the event on those dates actually *was*, and type them as "Event", and set the date in properties there.

Chris,

Thank you very much for visiting our {no your website} . It has been created on behalf of all those involved in the events in Northern Kentucky in 1965 and 1967. I can assure you that all responders and witnesses that we have had the opportunity to meet have, almost almost without question, asked us about the children of 128, to the extent that I have added a gallery dedicated to you and I believe 3 other children who were onboard 128. We will now be able to start answering that question.

Harvey Pelly, I am sure, will be glad you and your sister have been "found'. We just had the discussion with Harvey on Saturday and basically confirmed that Eileen was on his ambulance and now she has reconfirmed by having remembered Mr. Pelley. Ironically, I was looking at your picture as I was completing my breakfast on Saturday as in preparation for our meeting with Mr. Pelley and Mr. Bill Smith.

I can assure you that the events in the 1960's have been carried in many hearts through time  and that no one onboard 383 or 128 have been forgotten.

Hi Rollie, with regards to skud's comments, I've made some edits to start you off.

I've renamed "June 27, 2009" to "Visit to American Airlines Flight 383 crash site on June 27, 2009".  This is a more descriptive title, and is less likely to be misunderstood by people browsing through Freebase or incorrectly edited.

I've also typed it as an event, and given it a start and end date and linked it to the Flight 383 Crash site.  I also included it as one of many events in the campaign to erect a memorial.

You are doing fantastic work, and I really do hope you keep using freebase.

SPROKETONLINE: Thank you for understanding what is going on in Northern Kentucky and the significance that this website has had in the success of finding people and victims of an event(s) that occurred over 40 years ago.

I like the new gallery lay-out and the statistical data that is available to document the lives of the people touched so sadly in these events. I am going to put directions on each base to direct visitors into the galleries so they can read the articles. A drop down would be nice on the summary page.

Understand, as an example, that Freebase exclusively  has the final communications timeline of flight 383 with the aircraft position tied to what is being said between tower and the flight deck. Deletion of any of this data without fair notice will cause me hours of work to restore on another website.

 I understand what Freebase is doing and think it is a very worthwhile endeavor to capture man's knowledge in this format. When this all started I had no idea  that this project would result in what will most likely be my most important and most touching aviation project I have ever had the pleasure of working on. I want to remind you that you {Sprocketonline} and Freebase encouraged me to plod on through endless hours of data entry. I do not want to leave Freebase but I can't have "drama" either at such a critical point in our endeavor. Once again you have prevented a major crisis from interfering with the important work of telling the story of the hundreds of people who were impacted by these tragedies.

 Thank you for being a pillar of support.

 Rollie

Rollie, I've taken the final communications transcript and changed it into structured data - which is what freebase is best used for.  If you take a look at http://www.freebase.com/edit/topic/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000b195248

you will see that I've created a type called Air Traffic Communication Transcript.  I've started transcribing the dialogue to get you started.

I've added speaker, time, latitude, longitude and elevation fields which can be filled in against each piece of dialogue.  This sort of structured data has many benefits over plain text.

Let me know if you have any questions, and do keep up the good work.

I added info to Toni Ketchell description and will continue to do so as I continue to build the 383 base. I appreciate your technical assistance and editing as I want to build an accurate and functional site. I plan to add everone on the flight as you did with the flight crew. I like your catagory idea (survivors-deceased-etc.). It's taking a little time for me to fully understand how everything relates and is structured within the software of FreeBase.

Again thanks for your assistance. 

You are doing a fantastic job of documenting the Flight 383 disaster - keep up the good work.

 I've tried to help out by tidying up some things so they conform to Freebase's data model slightly better.

I changed severe trauma, fire or both to list the two distinct causes of death, fire and severe trauma, rather than create the new topic.

Also be careful when filling in properties which ask for explicit types.  For example, you had noted Richard Charron's place of death as Flight 383 crash, which would imply that the crash is a location.  In this case it is the actual crash site should be noted. 

 I saw you had filled in  Hilly Area with scrub trees and foliage as a notable structure damaged by the Flight 383 crash.  This would mean that hilly area is tagged as a structure, similar to the Eiffel Tower or Statue of Liberty!  The schema can't handle descriptions of locations at the moment, so I think the best place to note it is in the topic description.

 I also tagged the International Society of Air Safety Investigators as an organization, and Cabin Safety Working group as a committe in that organization.

I hope this helps. 

rollie, you should add your work to wikipedia too-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_383

goodjob,

Thanks again for your support. I took a closer look at the American Airlines flight 383 article on Wikipedia. I added and corrected a couple of items. Were you suggesting to add to the existing information or start a new article on the site?

I am going to begin placing witnesses and first responders to the the list of people. Here things get a little complicated and I expect things to slow down while I am rechecking the facts.

I would like to write about several aspects of the event  {the flight from LaGuardia to Greater Cincinnati area and the post crash events at the site}. I can either eliminate the Wikipedia data under AA flight 383 topic and make a lengthy article about both or create a couple of new topics. Let me know what will work better with the Freebase software.

 Is there a way to edit the Yahoo maps? I would like to correct the one under the crash site topic. The AA flight 383 map is good.

rollie08,  If you wish to contribute to wikipedia, it's best to build upon the existing wikipedia article, either adding new information or tidying things up - see this screencast for a great example of wikipedia article changes in action.

The wikipedia article should at some point be automatically updated into the freebase topic description for Flight 383.  If you have any facts, it's best just to enter them into the freebase properties, and use wikipedia for noting things that can't (yet) be modelled in freebase.

 The Google map on the right hand side can be altered by changing the Geolocation latitude and longitude properties on the location part of the AA Flight 383 Crash site topic.  After saving the correct longitude and latitude, press refresh on your browser and it should update - if not, it is maybe a bug with the freebase software so then try notifying freebase using the feedback system.

This has gotten a little bigger then originally envisioned. Linda Holbrook will be joining me. She has an interest in documenting the November 20, 1967 air disaster in Cincinnati and has suggested that her and I work towards a memorial to be placed somewhere in Northern Kentucky for both crashes. I have started a TWA flight 128 base.

 I plan to work on the Wikipedia article for both flights (over time). Thanks for getting me this far.....

Sprocketonline-I need you to take a look at filght 383 base. I have added views and before I continue, I need to know if this is a proper design for the base. Essentially I  am breaking up "all topics" into views and transferring data from "all topics" to the appropriate new view.

I also have considered a view of Boone County where the plane crashed showing places in the immediate area of the crash site. Don't know if that would make sense on the base.

Rollie

Rollie, What you have been doing is good.

Freebase can save you some time, and do this automtically for you. If you click 'edit view' and go to 'advanced view' you can select some criteria which if a topic matches will be added to your view.  There is a help topic on this here.

I have added some views which do this for you here, here and here. 

To explain the Victims of Flight 383 view, I went to the 'deceased person' type and clicked 'edit view'.  I then set up a criteria to only select deceased people who were also 'disaster victims'.  The I added a second criteria to ensure the disaster property of 'disaster victim' was 'flight 383'.

Freebase will then add anyone you type as a 'disaster victim' of flight 383 to this view, and save you doing it manually.

I'm not experiencing any issues - but I don't fully understand what the problem is you are having.

 However, it is best to ask the Help Center for these sorts of problems, or to log a bug so it can be addressed by the technical staff: http://www.freebase.com/site/feedback

I'm not experiencing any issues - but I don't fully understand what the problem is you are having.

 However, it is best to ask the Help Center for these sorts of problems, or to log a bug so it can be addressed by the technical staff: http://www.freebase.com/site/feedback

If I click on, for example Robert Deters in the TWA 128 base under survivors, when the topic page displays for Robert Deters, the custom page does not load, therefore I have a white color background instead of color and you can only view 1 posted picture vs. the 3 or 4 I have posted in his gallery. {topic}

This problem started Thursday afternoon USA Eastern Time and I have had problems both on my home computer and my  work  computer.  The base and table pages seem to be normal. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the Freebase software to troubleshoot it myself.

 Rollie

It looks more like my profile page then my custom pages.

Rollie

Not good news? We haven't changed the functionality of bases in any other fashion. Just found that the skinning of topic pages associated with a themed base was not as initially successful as we hoped (this decision may be revisited in the future).

All the important data/properties remain, which is the most important thing, for your topic pages.

Plus even more interesting and exciting things are being imagined/under development...Coming soon.

The images that were being displayed in the topic section was a huge part of the memorial base as it personalized each victim. Now only one picture can be accessed, this is going to reduce the value of this project strategically.

IF I AM WRONG ABOUT THIS, PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME AS THIS IS GOING TO EFFECT FUTURE PROJECTS THAT I HAVE STARTED WITH FREEBASE.

I have no choice  but to continue the aviation disaster bases but now I have to somehow try and  integrate another website into this process to display pictures important to this base.

The images are still there and linked to the topic, it's just the colour scheme isn't applied to the topic page (but is still on the base).

 I'm not sure why the thumbnails of extra pictures aren't shown, but I agree, it was a useful feature - I've logged a request asking for it back https://bugs.freebase.com/browse/CLI-7894

Thanks,Iain, for attempting a repair. This is a very annoying development. We have been using this site to bring forward family members, first responders, and witnesses to two very horrific airliner crashes in Northern Kentucky during  the 1960's. We do this for two reasons: We want to use Freebase as an interesting and ACCURATE historical record of these ill-fated flights and to reference the site to interest Northern Kentucky citizens in supporting us in placing a memorial near the crash sites. Success has been remarkable and our credibility hinges on providing a professional designed website to document our studies

 Meantime, I must begin the process of providing a backup link to provide a reliable website to present our images.

Images will be back up in their multiplicity by this afternoon as we fixed it.

 Check it out on http://sandbox-freebase.com (it's where the next release of code is running)

 As for the types, are you in draft mode? Draft mode is not currently functional at this time, we hope to have that fixed in the upcoming week. Please consider marking the "include this base..." box in the /?edit=edit-settings for your base until we adjust how draft types work,

We apologize for the inconveniance you have encountered as we transition our topic view for some aspects to hopefully what all will consider an great improvement.

So it has been fixed, http://bugs.freebase.com/browse/CLI-7893 and should be visible early next week. It will be in client/dev/84 which you can always determine what is running on our site here: http://www.freebase.com/api/version

 What's currently on Freebase.com is this:

Can you check the "ajasko" account which has two bases started: Steel Mills of the Monogahela and the Homestead Strike of 1892 http://homesteadstrike.freebase.com/ . I would like to resume work on these bases, however, I will need to be able to display multiple pictures like I have done with the aviation bases. Can you check this out? I am not in a critical hurry with these bases, so if it takes a few weeks to get things moving, that will be fine.

Thank you for repairing our flight 383/128 sites. We have alot of activity happening in Northern Kentucky and really needed these bases for others to reference.

Thank you for your prompt response. I have tested the websites and they appear to be working properly. As a result, as I have time, I will resume the construction of the "steel" bases. Because of how large of a project the airliners have become, they will continue to get top priority.

Target date for "completion" of the "steel" sites will be late 2009.

I would like to contest the placing of Susan Walsh as an actress onto Thomas Walsh's Gallery. The actress Susan Walsh was born and died in Baltimore. The infomation submitted indicates birth on March 30, 1948.

 I refer you to the Cincinnati Post and Times Star edition of November the 10th 1965 which indicates that Thomas Walsh was born in Quebec, lived in Cincinnati, Ohio since 1937. In addition, the article indicates his daughter, Susan, was 14 which puts her birth year in 1951.

Factoring in the possible errors in news reporting, I don't, at this time, find the addition to Thomas Walsh as credible. It would make a great enhancement to the site if additional proof of accuracy could be provided.

Thomas Walsh's older daughter, Kathy, was indeed an actress. I would appreciate it if you can look into who submitted the new data and see if they have additional facts.

Thanks

Thanks for your vote of confidence. We hope to continue building on 383 while we begin to assemble info on 128.

Your service has been great and we won't hesitate to ask for your help as needed. It has been a pleasure working with your team..

I have corrected the coordinates of the crash site. Accident was to the SouthWest of Cincinnati. I am not sure how to adjust the yahoo map to reflect this change.

Thanks

We can make changes to the topic data in the commons - e.g. changing a person's date of birth etc..

What we can't do is make changes to the commons types (i.e. add extra properties to the person type e.g. 'nickname' or 'pets owned').  Changes to types in the commons need to be discussed, agreed upon, then a ticket is created and someone with admin rights (typically a freebase employee) can make the change to the commons type.

The beauty is that you can create and edit your own types, as I have done with Dams.  These are noted as user-created types on the topic, so don't have the kudos of a commons type, but are still seen and editable by everyone. 

Once a user-created type becomes sufficiently well developed and used it can be migrated to the commons. Again, it is to be discussed and agreed upon, and then a ticket will be raised for a Freebase administrator to action.

With regards to mass importers, I personally rarely have added more than 20 or so topics at a time.  I would recommend reading the loading data guide.

The best way is to use the MQL editor.  It is best to have a trial run with the MQL editor in the sandbox first before running the same query on the live data.

Regards

Iain 

you're an excellent editor sprocketonline. thank you. I did those properties for the fires type.   i get the whole 'types of types' idea now.  though i am confused whether to allow redundancies, like human stampede is part of 'event' type, which has 'location' property, but should human stampede type have a location property too?

freebase is pretty cool.

hey also, the list importer seems to allow tsv importing for some types but not others so thats part of permissions probably? oh, and is there a trick to adding a type to a base? I think our bridge base doesn't have 'bridges' type yet...?

thanks tons,

In short - No, you don't need the 'location' property.

I can see where the confusion has arisen - skud is differentiating between different kinds of disaster by using a property called 'type of disaster' which expects a value of 'disaster type'.  However, you are using a different way of differentiating between kinds of disaster, and the 'disaster type' is inot required by you.

You are tagging a topic with a different type ('human stampede') which is a specific sort of disaster.  This method of differentiation is known as inheritance, as 'human stampede' inherits from 'disaster'.   (skud's way is not wrong - it is just a different solution, but your method of types allows for special properties which only a 'human stampede' can have, e.g. number of people crushed)

I would suggest that 'human stampede' should have 'disaster' as an included type, and not the 'disaster type' type (extra confusion when using the word "type" in the name of a type!).  The reason for this is explained:

A disaster being a specific sort of event, and a human stampede being a particular sort of disaster, we need to set up an inheritance schema. As 'human stampede' inherits from 'disaster' (included type), and subsequently 'disaster' inherits from 'event' (included type), all the properties in the' event' type are available to anything tagged with 'human stampede'. 

e.g. when tagging the Hillsborough Disaster with 'human stampede' we would want it also to be tagged as a 'disaster', which is what the included type does.  As it currently stands tagging Hillsborough Disaster with 'human stampede' would also tag it with 'disaster type', and Hillsborough Disaster would end up being listed alongside flood, fire etc. so is currently incorrect.

----------

I'm not too familiar with the importing of tsv - but I don't see any logical reason why it would only allow data importing to certain types (anyone should be able to add any topic to any type).  I think this is probably a bug - I would raise it in the relevant forum, see if anyone else has come across it.

---------

The 'Bridge' type is a well established type and is part of the Transportation Commons.  Do not create a second bridge type just for the Bridges base.

The purpose of the Base is there just to allow views about a topic to be collected in one particular place - it doesn't matter where the types used in the views come from (whether they have been created specifically for that base, or whether they come from the commons or even someone else's base).

As an example, the Dam base doesn't actually contain the Dam type - Dam is from my Engineering base.  But it doesn't matter, the Dam base still does the job of collecting views about Dams together onto one page.

 I hope this helps,

Iain 

Thank you for assisting me in creating my base for flight 383. I am going to need assistance to get set up properly.

I would like to add additional pics and possibly documents. Is this possible?

 I am going to add location data soon.

Again, thanks for your help....Rollie08

rollie08,

Pictures are definitely possible, please use the gallery on the relevant topic page, and click add.  Do make sure that you meet the licencing terms for the photos.

As for documents, I don't think you can upload the actual document - but you can make a topic page for it.  This page would describe the document and could be tagged with the written work and published work types, and you can then fill in some metadata regarding the document.

All facts should be entered into the table (tables are known as types in freebase).  You can add new types which cover different things (by clicking the 'add type' button). e.g. for flight 383 both the airliner accident and the disaster types were added, as the topic is both an air crash and a disaster.

Quite often the correct type does not yet exist, or that the type does not have all the relevant rows.  In this case it is best to write the facts into the description area of the topic.  (and freebase users with more experience can then think about creating the correct rows in the tables/types to be filled in later).

Things which aren't factual, such as anecdotal stories, rumours or opinions about a topic are best left in the discussion.

I hope this helps.