Visual Art

Visual Art: small typo

2008-06-06T15:24:32.0000Z

fixed. thanks!

Visual Art: small typo

2008-06-06T10:13:07.0005Z

In the header of http://www.freebase.com/view/visual_art , the word visual has acquired an errant "r"...

I don't think I have editorial access to that, so figured I offer a "heads up" here.

Artwork: Location property should support period of display

2008-03-26T20:29:52.0007Z

I've put up a model on sandbox to try to deal with most of these issues. You can see it here (at least until next Monday evening, PDT).

Visual Art Medium: metal,stone as media

2008-02-26T18:55:13.0007Z

Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way of displaying art media data in a hierarchical way without chaning the schema to support data hierarchy. All of the metadata about data that drives the display is queried from the data model.

Luckily, from the perspective of usability, the amount of data or the length of the list shouldn't matter for data entry. Filling out the media used in a sculpture, you only need to type in "copper" and autocomplete will pull up the top ten matches for copper and more likely than not, present the topic "copper" at the top. It's not necessary to browse the entire list, no need to type in "metal" first to navigate a second list. Just like there are tens of thousands of cities in Freebase. Instead of having to choose a country from a list first, then browse for a city in that country from a long list, the use pattern is simply to type in Chicago, or London, or Cairo directly and autocomplete will find it. I'm hoping that's consistent with your experience?

Visual Art Medium: metal,stone as media

2008-02-26T08:17:41.0000Z

It seemed to me that a heirarchical structure at this level might be quicker. In the first list I find stone then in a drop down I find amathyst. the first level can be hundreds of items shorter. this is an initial reaction I have perhaps I am not aware of all the ramafications.

Visual Art Medium: metal,stone as media

2008-02-25T18:54:30.0015Z

May I ask why? I understand the desire for hierarchy, but at the same time, keeping the schema flat, simple, and precise has quite a few advantages. For example, if I were interested in artists who work with copper and marble, I can query it now quite easily. On the other hand, if artists have higher level media specified, only as nonspecific as "metal" and "stone", I lose the ability to differentiate between artists who use copper and marble and artists who use silver and amathyst. That would be an undesirable loss of data precision.

Visual Art Medium: metal,stone as media

2008-02-24T20:13:51.0005Z

is it possible to list as a media "metal" rather than, bronze,copper,lead,zinc,shakudo,etc.as individual media? then sublist each metal under the heading of metal. the same argument applies to "stone" rather than.marble,granite,alabaster,jade,quartz,amathyst,shist,soapstone,etc.

Artwork: Location property should support period of display

2008-02-22T05:23:08.0007Z

Great news to hear! I've been looking for a provenance dataset since I started this thread actually. The Getty has a fairly good database but doesn't provide access to the data in a way that I can really make a dataset out of it (search only) and also has copyright on the data so the licensing issues come up. I'm still looking, and I keep meaning to chat with some Art History folks I know to see if they have a source for this kind of information.

I've actually been hesitant to make my own type for it because I don't have a dataset yet, so I totally understand that issue. If you just want a sense of what the data might look like, then the Getty's provenance database(s) are quite useful. (http://www.getty.edu).

Artwork: Location property should support period of display

2008-02-20T21:12:00.0000Z

Hi Alexander, I think you'll be happy to know that Jeff and I are going to refactor Artwork's Location and Owner properties to be time-based. Pricing info will be added at the same time. The project is currently scheduled for March. We will also revist modeling non-unique pieces of art (Rodin's "The Thinker"), although the complexity may require more time.

Speaking of detailed transitory exhibit/on-loan info, we would love to load it if you have access/rights to such data that you'd like to share with the Freebase community. Until we have enough data or users willing to put in such extensive data though, modeling it might be premature. It's my experience that trying to design schema without data to fill it out can quickly become an academic exercise, not something very useful to users I'm afraid. Let's revisit it in a bit.

Oh, if I haven't mentioned before, all users are encouraged to play with schema in their domain. Well-used user-types have been successfully promoted and integrated into the Freebase data community here.

Artwork: Location property should support period of display

2008-02-15T05:35:07.0000Z

You've presented quite a few of the issues that I've become more aware of as I explored trying to find a database that records sales/movements of art that was public domain (so far, no luck). I think that it might be a good idea to have a seperate compound for tracking sales of art. The most recent buyer becomes the holder. Supporting pieces with multiple reproductions still isn't entirely clear though. Location(s) could have a similar compound value that specifies if the item is on-loan, exhibit, or owned by the location, and when they received it for exhibit. I would _love_ to see detailed location information since what I really want to do with this data is build virtual art exhibits, where you can browse a collection at a point in time.

Artwork: Location property should support period of display

2008-02-14T23:07:19.0000Z

Hi Alexander, you're right that location of artworks can change. So can ownership, and both properties are overdue for a redesign. Change of ownership usually causes change in location, though not necessarily vice versa. Special exhibits should probably be its own type, with Event as an included type.

How specific would you like to model artwork location data? The level of detail required can help drive the schema design. At the museum-level, or perhaps including the museum gallery or wing info? Should it be noted when an item goes from storage to display and back at the same museum? When an art piece is en-route from one museum to another?

In terms of capturing reproductions or non-unique works of art, there's been a lot of debate but not a lot of break-through idea. How do we model the various Rodin sculptures like "The Thinker", all pieces of which share the same name but can differ in size, material, ownership and location? We'd like a schema to capture all relevant information that can be applied to special cases like this, but not unnecessarily complicate data entry on more typical "unique" pieces of artwork that don't suffer the same level of identity crisis. Ideas?

Artwork: Location property should support period of display

2008-02-12T23:16:33.0007Z

The places lived type used in the Person type may be the best option. Though the name seems a little weird.

Artwork: Location property should support period of display

2008-02-11T10:39:22.0012Z

Pieces of art move from gallery, to museum, to private collection and back again, in both permanent and temporary ways. With that in mind, the Location field should probably become a seperate type like Display which includes the time of the stay at a particular location. This will also make it possible to differentiate pieces with multiple reproductions, since any piece with multiple open periods of display must have multiple copies.

Visual Art: Art Subject Type has been published

2007-10-30T01:41:13.0012Z

Hi, the newly created Art Subject Type has been published and is now available for use. I've added some seed data as examples:

http://www.freebase.com/view/filter/visual_art/art_subject

Enjoy!

Artwork: subject of an artwork

2007-10-26T18:20:55.0007Z

Ship it! Looks fine.

Artwork: subject of an artwork

2007-10-26T01:22:31.0007Z

I agree, this is much better.

Artwork: subject of an artwork

2007-10-25T23:34:58.0007Z

Hi, I gave this more thought and decided to make Visual Art Subject a type of its own. The benefit of this approach is that not only will artworks have a property for subject, but perhaps more importantly when you view a topic that is an Art Subject you can see a list of artworks on that subject. I've modeled this on sandbox and filled out some data. See the list of artworks in Freebase depicting the Annunciation (now typed as Visual Art Subject), for example.

Artwork: subject of an artwork

2007-09-08T07:59:59.0000Z

looks good.
the subject of that painting is actually Claude Monet's garden in Giverny which we dont have a topic for yet.

Artwork: subject of an artwork

2007-09-06T18:20:26.0007Z

I've added the property on sandbox here. One concern I have is that there may be quite a bit of overlap between the subject and the title of an artwork. The subject of Monet's "Waterlilies" series is waterlilies, for example. And the plethora of Madonna and Child and Crucifixion paintings so popular during the 14th to the 16th century are aptly titled. I have to admit that even so, the link from artwork to subject as structured data has its advantages.

Artwork: subject of an artwork

2007-09-04T17:57:13.0000Z

Sounds good. Let me try it on sandbox and I'll send out a link.

Artwork: subject of an artwork

2007-09-02T03:29:43.0012Z

I think perhaps artwork should have a subject property, ECT topic.
for example 'Boudica and Her Daughters' subject is 'Boudica'

Visual Artist: Work / Birth place distinction

2007-04-28T02:07:16.0006Z

I'm generally supportive of this - need to figure out whether to add this to this type or to the person type.

Visual Artist: Work / Birth place distinction

2007-04-26T17:36:25.0006Z

Good point. Let me talk it over with Dan.

Visual Artist: Work / Birth place distinction

2007-04-26T15:32:19.0012Z

I was at the Tate Modern the other day and noticed that in addition to stating where the artist was born, they also note the place/location that the artist worked since this is frequently important (e.g. Italy, USA for Cy Twombly)

Visual Art: PLEASE READ: Art Form vs. Art Genre vs. Art Movement

2007-04-09T21:18:41.0006Z

Good idea, Dan. I've modified Art Form and Art Genre to display as enumerated list under Artist and Artwork where present. I hope this would make data entry easier without testing users on type definitions. I remember modifying some documentation articles to clarify but will double check.

Visual Art: I feel there should be a media type associated with the Visual Artist

2007-04-09T21:13:46.0006Z

I've promoted the schema change to production; you should see Art Form under Artist, and the reverse link as well.

Visual Art: PLEASE READ: Art Form vs. Art Genre vs. Art Movement

2007-04-09T18:34:43.0009Z

Faye, feel free to update the documentation around any of the types as well - you may want to make this point in the description of the visual art domain. Another modeling option you have is to use 'enumerated list' for some of these properties if you don't want users to add new values for a type.

Visual Art: I feel there should be a media type associated with the Visual Artist

2007-04-09T18:32:40.0006Z

Looks good to me. May also want to link back from Art Form to Artist, in the same way we're linking back to art works.

Visual Art: PLEASE READ: Art Form vs. Art Genre vs. Art Movement

2007-04-05T18:17:24.0012Z

Hi, I've seen some confusion in discerning Art Form from Art Genre from Art Period/Movement as defined here (and in Wikipedia) in labeling artworks. So, to clarify:

ART FORM corresponds with the MEDIUM or FORM of EXPRESSION the artist chooses to employ. Examples of art forms: photography, painting, sculpture, print making.

ART GENRE pertains to the SUBJECT of the artwork. Examples of art genre: portrait, landscape, still life, abstract art.

ART PERIOD/MOVEMENT categorizes the SCHOOL or STYLE of the artwork. Often associated with a distinct period in history, and often end in "-ism". Examples of art period/movement: Impressionism, Cubism, Expressionism.

Thank you for helping keep the data accurate and complete in Freebase.

Artwork: Properties of Artworks

2007-04-05T17:40:13.0000Z

For now, a single system of measurement is used for artworks for easier comparison, so that the relative dimensions of multiple artworks are obvious.

We settled on using the metric system instead of the imperial system because metric conversion is easy: 1m = 100cm, so an art work of 7.32m is 732cm -- math that people can do in their head. The imperial system of foot to inch conversion, however, is not so straightforward. Most people can't tell how many inches are in 7.32 feet (it happens to be 87.84 inches).

The use of meter over centimeter was debated. Meter was chosen eventually because although the measurement of small artworks in meters can look rather odd, the measurement of large artworks in centimeters look even odder. A small painting like the Mona Lisa, for example, is 0.77 x 0.53 meters, but Brancusi's Endless Column is 2933 centimeters tall, and Spiral Jetty is 47250 centimeters long.

I agree that having an automatic conversion tool would be useful. For now, you can easily convert artwork dimensions you know in cm to m by dividing 100 (or moving the decimal point to the left two digits). As for inch to meter conversion, I would suggest using an online tool since the calculation of 1m=39.37" and 1"=0.0254m can be (understandably) error-prone.

Artwork: Properties of Artworks

2007-04-05T04:38:00.0006Z

sorry for not specifying; most artworks have their dimensions given as inches (in the US) or cm (in Europe). is it possible to do conversion or allow for different units to be entered?

Visual Art: I feel there should be a media type associated with the Visual Artist

2007-04-05T01:34:05.0000Z

The media type (Sculpture, Photography, Painting, etc.) associated with the Visual Artist as you described is captured by the Visual Art Form type. Currently the schema has it set up as a property of Artwork instead of Artist, i.e. "Saint Andrew and Saint Thomas" by Bernini is of form Painting, whereas his "Apollo and Daphne" is of form Sculpture.

We could add Visual Art Form to the Artist type in addition to Visual Artwork. We thought art form would be more precisely modeled as a property of individual artworks, but your suggestion has advantages as well. Note, though, that most artists did not stick with one medium, and most would have more than three art forms you may not identify the artists with. Even Rodin did oil paintings, watercolors, and drawings in charcoal, and Man Ray did illustrations, drawings and paintings earlier in his career.

Let me try it on sandbox to see what the new schema would look like.

Visual Art: I feel there should be a media type associated with the Visual Artist

2007-04-05T00:48:49.0012Z

Fields such as Sculpture, Photography, Painting, Multimedia, etc. It's kinda formal but it's how Art History is usually taught in time-periods, movements and fields (until we reach Modern Art of 1910's and onwards where the trend is towards multimedia).

Examples would be:

Rodin (who would be Sculpture)

Man Ray (Photography)

Michaelangelo (Architecture, Painting, Sculpture)

Artwork: Properties of Artworks

2007-03-19T22:28:40.0010Z

Good suggestions. Will look into adding these.

Artwork: Properties of Artworks

2007-03-19T15:40:42.0012Z

Dimensions (height, width, depth) should be added as properties of artworks